K-Tec

Open Letter to AI/A&S

  • voyager
  • voyager's Avatar Topic Author
  • Offline
  • Super Giant
  • Super Giant
  • Posts: 3663
  • Thank you received: 2

Open Letter to AI/A&S was created by voyager

Dear AI/A&S,

I have been a member now for about 10 years (give or take) and I would like to air a few concerns I have.

I have read a lot recently about the interesting (and totally confusing) relationship between Astronomy Ireland and Astronomy & Space Ltd.. What really confuses me is that Both Astronomy Ireland and Astronomy and Space are limmited companies yet AI refer to them selves as a club and rely on "donations" to survive. What is even more confusing is that it no longer exists as it was disolved in 2000 according to the CRO. How can I be a "member" of a disolved company?

AI is supposedly a club yet it is a company, how does that work? On the one hand we are being asked for donations to "help your club" yet on the other hand AI is a company. You cannot have your cake and eat it too! Either AI is a non-profit organization or it is a company, it cannot be both and certainly not considering it was disolved 3 years ago! I have checked with the CRO and genuine non-profit organisations like Trócaire do NOT show up as companies yet both AI and A&S do.

What I want to know is, am I a subscriber to a Magazine published by the Comapany Astronomy & Space Ltd. or am I a member of a Club called Astronomy Ireland? When I pay my subscription fee PLUS DONATION where exactly does that money go? The form claims it goes to AI but I presume it actually goes to A&S Ltd? Where does my donation go? Does it also go to a limited company?

I must say that I am very confused by all of this. I am used to working within the University System where every club gets audited twice a year and all club accounts are available to ALL MEMBERS as well as the general public. I get very worried when I cannot see how my hard earned money is being spent by a "club" I have joined. I also find it very dishonest that the membership form does not clearly state where the money goes. If it goes to A&S Ltd like I expect it does it is false advertising not to state that on the form IMHO.

Lastly, as a fee paying member of Astronomy Ireland (or whereever my money goes) I would like to register my complaint at the decision to deny South Dublin Astronomical Society (SDAS) a stand at the Astro Expo. According to literature from this club/company the aim of the event is to act as a hub for astronomy in Ireland ("This is the one event in the Irish astronomy calendar where everyone interested in astronomy+space comes together to meet up."). This is a very good an noble aim but the exclusion of an amateur club that is free to join and offers great services to Dublin Astronomers flies in the face of that statement. This kind of behaviour is expected of a profitering company but NOT of a club that puts the interests of its members first.

Regards,

Bart Busschots,
AI Member Number Mxxxx.
My Home Page - www.bartbusschots.ie
19 years 2 months ago #1105

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

  • voyager
  • voyager's Avatar Topic Author
  • Offline
  • Super Giant
  • Super Giant
  • Posts: 3663
  • Thank you received: 2

Replied by voyager on topic Re: Open Letter to AI/A&S

FYI

I have recieved a response from AI which basically says that they are a wee bit busy now with the expo but that they do want to address the concerns I raised as soon as they have the time to. This is fair enough, running the Expo involves a lot of work.

The other interesting part of the reply is the following:

SDAS and every other astronomy clubs is VERY welcome to attend, as is
EVERY other person. No exceptions.


Anyone from SDAS wish to comment on that?

Bart B.
My Home Page - www.bartbusschots.ie
19 years 2 months ago #1120

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

  • Posts: 4173
  • Thank you received: 181

Replied by albertw on topic Re: Open Letter to AI/A&S

I have recieved a response from AI which basically says that they are a wee bit busy now with the expo but that they do want to address the concerns I raised as soon as they have the time to. This is fair enough, running the Expo involves a lot of work.


Thats a fairly standard response, several times I have mailed them they have replied saying they are too busy to reply. You will need to keep pestering them for any further response.

SDAS and every other astronomy clubs is VERY welcome to attend, as is
EVERY other person. No exceptions.

Anyone from SDAS wish to comment on that?


'Welcome to attend' and ' welcome to set up an exhibit' are very different things, I've noticed you have to read Mr. Moores emails very carefully, technically he is telling the truth, however it does not actually answer your complaint, and to me seems to be worded in such a way as to put the blame for not turning up on the SDAS. Or perhaps they are genuinely backpeddling due to the amount of emails they have gotten about it.

Cheers,
~Al
Albert White MSc FRAS
Chairperson, International Dark Sky Association - Irish Section
www.darksky.ie/
19 years 2 months ago #1122

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

  • johnflannery
  • Offline
  • IFAS Astronomer of the Year 2004
  • IFAS Astronomer of the Year 2004
  • Posts: 1191
  • Thank you received: 253

Replied by johnflannery on topic Re: Open Letter to AI/A&S

I'd hate the whole thing degenerating into a slanging match between SDAS and A.I. -- thanks for all your support though.

my final say on this is that they notified me that the presence of any other astronomy club would inappropriate and competition for membership. I think my plea that we are a small, non-fee club fell on deaf ears.

you have to admit, they have every right to say who can and can't be present at the event though and we can't argue with that. You can't argue with the competition bit either. After all, clubs put out membership flyers at events such as the Whirpool or Cosmos. The general public has a free choice.

A.I. are successful and have introduced so many in Ireland to the hobby. Why cannot we work with them? Is it because of one person?

maybe the root reason is the way their aims are so nebulous ... not highlighting that there are other choices out there. The seemingly endless need to suggest you have to pay to see the sky (e.g. letters to Marswatch organisers almost demanding they hustle people to pay to look through scopes).

Star-B-Qs, etc. are a beautiful and relaxing way to get the neophyte astronomer turned on to the sky. But to ignore the rest of the astronomical community is damning the integrity of the aims of A.I.

to indicate too in the reply mail that they would like to cooperate with SDAS in other ways to further interest in astronomy in Ireland was a bit astonishing. I may not be acting in a way representative of the membership of SDAS, but I turned down that offer stating that it was contradictory to the earlier refusal of being part of Astro Expo.

I have not received a response either to my later mail pointing out that one of the forums clearly had a comment that all clubs and societies were invited to exhibit at the event.

John Flannery,
Chairperson,
South Dublin Astronomical Society
John Flannery ( aurorawatcher - at * gmail - dot * com ... remove hyphens/asterisks/spaces for email)
The chicken's motive for crossing the road would not be questioned in an ideal world
19 years 2 months ago #1123

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

  • Posts: 567
  • Thank you received: 0

Replied by spculleton on topic Re: Open Letter to AI/A&S

And so the circular arguments go round and round. We're all pissed off with Astronomy Ireland, and yet they seem to be thriving...

Let's try to be a bit more positive about the state of astronomy IN Ireland. Compare things now to the way they were this time last year. This time last year I was a member of AI and only knew about the events organised and run by themselves. This year I'm a proud and happy member of both TAS and IAS, while no longer a member of AI (although I'm sure I'm still on their books), I subscribe to three astronomy discussion boards, and I've attended two wonderful astronomy events, ie Cosmos and Whirlpool. That's just me, but I'm sure there are plenty of others out there with the same or similar experiences. Things are actually quite good, and seem to be getting better.

The fact that I can be a member of two organisations simultaneously says a lot about the spirit of the clubs and societies that make up the IFAS. Co-operation and support are two of the cornerstones for these member groups. So what if AI won't promote other groups? Let them on, it's not that big a deal, we'll get there in the end.

The fact that DM can get his mug on TV fairly regularly does bring benefit to the entire hobby as John points out. Can we honestly say that part of our reasons for being disgruntled isn't jealousy? He's successful in that regard. Again, let him on.

Like many others I'm unhappy about the prices charged by AI. Shocked would probably be a better word than unhappy. I've met kids at AI Star-B-Qs who've persuaded their parents to buy a 'scope from A&S for them. These are the ones that I feel really sorry for. The money they're spending could go a lot further if they just knew that they had options. This is where IFAS is falling down perhaps. As someone suggested elsewhere, it's very important to promote IFAS, to get this site out there and recognised. Maybe AI has more members than IFAS, but we have more astronomers. Next time you're looking out at Orion, as I'm hoping to do in a couple of minutes, put the whole thing in perspective:

Things have been worse, now they are better, and they look like they are getting better all the time. Let's promote our site as best we can, and not worry about things that are fairly unimportant.

Ad Astra.
Shane Culleton.

Dozo Yoroshiku Onegai Shimasu
19 years 2 months ago #1130

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

  • Posts: 6
  • Thank you received: 0

Replied by Fintan on topic Re: Open Letter to AI/A&S

Shane

Ditto!

Fintan
19 years 2 months ago #1195

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

  • Posts: 567
  • Thank you received: 0

Replied by spculleton on topic Re: Open Letter to AI/A&S

I was looking through the IAS site this morning, trying to find out whether or not there will be observing in Glencullen tonight, when I was struck by a couple of things. There's a real sense of history and carrying on a legacy in the IAS. There's longeivity. There's service, quality and professionalism. That's something you don't see in Astronomy Ireland which is a more ... plastic kind of astronomy. The grubbiness of constantly saying you can buy filter x from the shop and you really need it and so on and so forth detracts from the group/company/dictatorship/whatever. I was just struck by the quality and dedication of astronomical endeavour and commitment to a society that has been in Ireland, through various clubs and societies, since at least 1937. Like I said, things are actually quite good out there. Just musing in electrons I suppose!

PS - How do I get to Glencullen from Rathfarnham, and assuming it's a clear night should I? Or will be people be around Djouce?
Shane Culleton.

Dozo Yoroshiku Onegai Shimasu
19 years 2 months ago #1228

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

  • Wallymee
  • Wallymee's Avatar
  • Visitor
  • Visitor

Replied by Wallymee on topic Re: Open Letter to AI/A&S

I suppose we would not have expected any less from AI. I think AI or whoever they are these days, would have a major problem with SDAS, due to the fact that both myself and Jimmy Miller are the owners of Andromeda Optics, who are in direct competition with A&S/AI.

People would see immediately the exhorbitant prices they are being asked to pay for items from AI. By way of example, I saw Starry night pro for €180 odd with Armagh Planetarium and it was €230 odd with AI.

Further I suppose it is a bit rich for someone who has the stated aims of promoting Astronomy in Ireland to say that in order to do this, we are in some way in competition with AI.

As far as SDAS is concerned, we have members who are also members of the IAS, IAA and AI and feel in no way threatened by this.

AI by its nature is very isolationist and doesn't want the General Public to know that there is a very large community of astronomers out there and outside of AI.

I was speaking recently to a customer of ours who has been a member of AI for a fair lenght of time and I asked him had he ever heard of Whirlpool, Cosmos or IFAS and he said he didn't.

The problem is and I suppose he is right, if people become involved in the other clubs they will immediately see AI for what it is.

SDAS by the way is meeting on the 4th December at 8.00 pm (sharp) at Gonzaga College Ralelagh, and we will have talks by Dan Lynch on his trip to the Antartic for the eclipse and Philip Lardner on telescope making.

All welcome, no donations or entry fee required.

Wally Mee
Treasurer
South Dublin Astronomical Society.

SDAS and every other astronomy clubs is VERY welcome to attend, as is
EVERY other person. No exceptions.


Anyone from SDAS wish to comment on that?

Bart B.[/quote]
19 years 2 months ago #1230

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

  • Posts: 49
  • Thank you received: 0

Replied by spaceboy on topic AI

I am a former commititee member of the much maligned AI and I would like to add my comment(s) to this seemingly one sided debate.

AI was formed way back in 1990 and has grown since then.

It was formed when some members split from the IAS.

In the early 1990's a split occured in AI which resulted in most of the committee leaving, indeed some of these subsequently went back to the IAS and went on to become presidents and vice presidents of that organisation. The reasons for that split are open to debate but I will not engage in it.

When AI attended the Whirlpool Star Party in 1990 we asked to join the previous IFAS upon which we were told that it had been DISBANDED a few hours earlier!!!. At the time we heard that it was disbande because some people did not want DM sitting on the IFAS committee, which is interesting because DM was not going to be AI's representative but another AI committee member Ian Shepard was.

Since then AI has gone it's own way, and some people don't like that. Well Tough.

Even though I am no longer actively involved in AI as I was once, I still attend their meetings and other events. I still like to go out observing with the members occasionly and will sit down with them in a pub and enjoy the crack over a few pints.

When I clicked on this site a few weeks ago I started reading some of the comments concerning AI, A&S magazine and DM. I was shocked and suprised that their is still this element of anti AIness out there.

Instead of back biting and smart comments all the time can we all not get along and concentrate on other more worthy projects, such as observing together and so on.

As I said before I'm no longer involved in the political side of astronomy in Ireland. I got pissed off, and still am, over all this muck raking shit.

In a recent message someone described the volunteers who devote their time to AI as "TOSSERS". As one of those volunteers I object to being called that. The only "TOSSERS" are those who constantly harp on about their problems with AI.

Finally just a little reminder about the acceptanve aggrement we all clicked on when we registered with this site.


"www.irishastronomy.org - Registration Agreement Terms


You agree not to post any abusive, obscene, vulgar, slanderous, hateful, threatening, sexually-oriented or any other material that may violate any applicable laws. Doing so may lead to you being immediately and permanently banned (and your service provider being informed).


With That

Thanking you for your time.
SPACEBOY. :evil:
19 years 1 month ago #1646

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

  • Posts: 276
  • Thank you received: 1
You just did

I got pissed off, and still am, over all this muck raking shit.

Charles
19 years 1 month ago #1647

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

  • Posts: 567
  • Thank you received: 0

Replied by spculleton on topic Re: Open Letter to AI/A&S

Hello Spaceboy, welcome on board and thank you for your comments. I hope that you don't feel that because you are a member of AI, or associated with the committee of AI that you are not welcome here. Nothing could be further from the truth.

I would like to draw an analogy for you between Irish astronomy and the era of space flight. A lot of people remember the glory days of Apollo, Skylab and so on. That's not the case for my generation. I remember Challenger, Columbia and the Mars rover. That's the highlight of spaceflight in my lifetime; a remote control car on Mars! Now back to astronomy. I bacame interested in astronomy, well properly interested anyway, just over two years ago. I don't remember the golden years before the split, and neither do a lot of current amatuers. We came along at a time when we had vague memories of "yer man with the beard off the Den". So while a lot of people are still pretty annoyed over "The Split", a lot of the rest of us are going "shut up! Get us another drink". We don't really care why the IAS and AI and then AI again broke up. We don't care how many iterations of IFAS there have been. All in all we don't give a toss about who are tossers, who called them tossers, and what exactly they are supposed to be tossing. It's in the past lads. Forget about it.

However tht does not mean that I am unconcerned about the future of the hobby in Ireland. I am a member of IAS and TAS because these organisations serve my interests best. Perhaps AI serves the interests of other amatuer astronomers better than these organisations do me. More power to it, but I doubt it.

I joined AI two years ago and lerned that there were three significant astronomical events in Ireland per year (2 star-b-qs and astro-expo) and that anyone who bought a Meade was cerebrally challenged (I dare ANYONE to say that to Gordon Nason!! :twisted: ). I missed seeing a lecture by John Dobson in Birr, which is forty minutes from my front door, because the "only Irish astronomy magazine" would not promote events from other groups. The horrible insular way of pretending that there are no other societies and that there are no other telescope manufacturers other than Celestron almost killed my interest in the hobby.

People, a LOT of people, in the Irish astronomical community are pissed off at AI by association. The real problem with AI is the fact that it is so closely intertwined with Astronomy & Space ltd and that many AI events which are designed for fundraising, seem to be A&S ltd events in reality. David Moore lies to people. I'll give you and example; he told subscribers to the AI mailing list that the only place to get truly accurate times for ISS flyovers was on his phoneline, and that Internet predictions were unreliable! Heavens-above is an award winning site which is totally reliable and, I suspect, the source for David's predictions. That was a lie told by him, either because he wasn't aware of how cool H-A is or he wan't people to ring his number. It implies that his motiviation is profit and not concern for informing Irish astronomers.

It's things like that which cause people to become annoyed with Astronomy Ireland, and by default its committee. Is the sole problem David Moore? I don't know and far be it for me to open myself to litigation from someone by daring to suggest that they are anything less than a kind and noble individual, and the closest thing to Christ living on earth at the moment.

Sever the links bewtween AI and A&S. Stop the confusion between who owns the shop and who runs the society. There are obviously a lot of things we fundamentally disagree on. I enjoy being in a society where I can vote for members of the executive, where I can request to see the accounts and where there is complete transparency in all aspects. That's just me and obviously it's not for you. I will agree with your basic point however. Those people should not have been refered to as tossers. That was unfair and unwise.

Thanks again for your comments and I look forward to hearing more from you on this topic and the range of others which we discuss freely here (and available in our shop - call for details). I hope you can see my perspective on The Split, and I would like to think that you can respect my differences of opinion with you on other issues.

Shane Culleton
Shane Culleton.

Dozo Yoroshiku Onegai Shimasu
19 years 1 month ago #1652

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

  • Posts: 4173
  • Thank you received: 181

Replied by albertw on topic Re: AI

Hi there,

Welcome aboard!

I was shocked and suprised that their is still this element of anti AIness out there.


I think for that comment that you see the issues with A&S/AI as being from disgruntled people from the splits that have occured in the past. And I am sure that some people still have strong feelings about these matters.

However, I have been a member of AI on and off since about 1992. In the end I got fed up with the club and its attitudes for my own reasons that had nothing to do with the politics of the past you refer to. For example, the prices charged by A&S to its subscribers were and still are exorbitant. I remember years ago writing to AI asking about going to an observing session with some other astronomers so I could look through some scopes, I was told about the Star-B-Q's and sent details of how much these events cost, I would expect a club to have free nights for members. I thought that perhaps having the members talk among themselves and organise their own sessions might be a good idea so I set up a yahoo mailing list and asked David Moore to put the address in the magazine after they closed their boards.ie fourm, he politely told me to remove the list immediately. etc.

And I think most of the comments in this thread refer to the present, telescope prices, lack of non-profitable information to potential astronomers in the public, and their exclusion of other clubs from their recent expo as they would be competing with them, lack of clairty on where the money raised goes etc.. These issues and ones like them are ongoing, and one can only conclude that AI acts in the best interests of A&S and not necessarily in the best interest of its subscribers. I doubt anyone here is interested in discussing at length the details of any splits in the past.

Instead of back biting and smart comments all the time can we all not get along and concentrate on other more worthy projects, such as observing together and so on


Agreed, and thats what a lot of folks are doing, there are more clubs sprining up than ever it appears and many people are joining the local clubs and going out observing with other astronomers. Though as shane points out AI seems to want to have an isolationist attitude and not get involved with other clubs for such events, pity. You dont say where you are from but if youre around the Dublin area get in touch with the SDAS, whos members regularly can be found in the wicklow mountains observing.

I think this site and the others cropping up, arcturus, the grouing number and popularity of star parties etc. are proof that people are getting on with things and not just `back biting`.

Cheers,
~Al
Albert White MSc FRAS
Chairperson, International Dark Sky Association - Irish Section
www.darksky.ie/
19 years 1 month ago #1654

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

  • Posts: 261
  • Thank you received: 0

Replied by jhonan on topic Re: Open Letter to AI/A&S

How my eyes lit up when I saw this thread rearing its ugly head again... :lol:

It seems that A&S Ltd. have a new trick up their sleeve. I thought that the A&S Ltd. "shop-club-magazine" vagueness was bad enough but now we have a new one to add to the mix - charity.

Did anyone else get the begging letter? - Allow me to quote:

Please support Astronomy Ireland

Proceeds from the sales in our Shop help to support and run Astronomy Ireland, your national astronomy club so please DO NOT buy your telescopes or gifts anywhere else this Christmas, or at any other time during the year. Help support astronomy in Ireland and get guaranteed quality.


So there we have it. Don't even THINK about buying your pressies anywhere else! I just hope they have pairs of socks and Cadburys selection boxes in stock. :lol:

Oh, and at the bottom of the letter we have; "PLEASE SUPPORT ASTRONOMY IRELAND" in big letters. I was expecting to see 'A telescope is for life, not just for Christmas', or perhaps a photo of an African village.

If anyone out there does feel like make a charitable donation to A&S Ltd this Christmas, then consider this; buying your telescope or accessories from an alternative dealer (US/UK or the other Irish alternatives), and send the savings to Concern - That'd be enough to buy a whole herd of goats for that African village.

I always said I admired A&S Ltd's marketing prowess. But this is just desperation. :roll:

John.
Everyone in Ireland buys Meade, and they all buy them from Lidl.
19 years 1 month ago #1657

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

  • Posts: 744
  • Thank you received: 25

Replied by stepryan on topic Re: Open Letter to AI/A&S

john,
a very interesting quote. i think i came up with a new marketing campaign for him but it is already taken....

"if carlsberg did astronomy shop/club/magazine etc ... " ;)

stephen.

ps. this is meant to be a bit of humor no offence intended.
19 years 1 month ago #1658

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

  • Posts: 8851
  • Thank you received: 237

Replied by dave_lillis on topic Re: Open Letter to AI/A&S

Hello Spaceboy,
I think that anyone should be able to say anyhing they want on this thread, as long as it is not libelous or in any way legally dangerous.

Anyone can criticize any club/society here, be it SAC/TAC/GAC ete, funny though how the targer is always the same.

I can unserstand how you want to defend your club, anyone would, but instead of telling us that your sick of all the crap spouted about AI, tell us how the postings are wrong, lets try and be abit constructive on this.
Dave L. on facebook , See my images in flickr
Chairman. Shannonside Astronomy Club (Limerick)

Carrying around my 20" obsession is going to kill me,
but what a way to go. :)
+ 12"LX200, MK67, Meade2045, 4"refractor
19 years 1 month ago #1661

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

  • Posts: 9637
  • Thank you received: 544

Replied by Seanie_Morris on topic Re: Open Letter to AI/A&S

How my eyes lit up when I saw this thread rearing its ugly head again... :lol:

It seems that A&S Ltd. have a new trick up their sleeve. I thought that the A&S Ltd. "shop-club-magazine" vagueness was bad enough but now we have a new one to add to the mix - charity.

Did anyone else get the begging letter? - Allow me to quote:

Please support Astronomy Ireland

Proceeds from the sales in our Shop help to support and run Astronomy Ireland, your national astronomy club so please DO NOT buy your telescopes or gifts anywhere else this Christmas, or at any other time during the year. Help support astronomy in Ireland and get guaranteed quality.


So there we have it. Don't even THINK about buying your pressies anywhere else! I just hope they have pairs of socks and Cadburys selection boxes in stock. :lol:

Oh, and at the bottom of the letter we have; "PLEASE SUPPORT ASTRONOMY IRELAND" in big letters. I was expecting to see 'A telescope is for life, not just for Christmas', or perhaps a photo of an African village.
John.



I dared look at the subscription form online, and apart from the E40 price (excluding magazine subscription, expo entry, evening class attendance, Star-b-q admission, cost of looking through an eyepiece), there is a seperate billing field for your donation to Astronomy Ireland!

I tell you, this debate/debacle can go on for a long time!

Seanie.
Midlands Astronomy Club.
Radio Presenter (Midlands 103), Space Enthusiast, Astronomy Outreach Co-ordinator.
Former IFAS Chairperson and Secretary.
19 years 1 month ago #1710

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

  • voyager
  • voyager's Avatar Topic Author
  • Offline
  • Super Giant
  • Super Giant
  • Posts: 3663
  • Thank you received: 2

Replied by voyager on topic Re: Open Letter to AI/A&S

I turn my back for 2 minutes and this things rears it's ugly head again!

:wink:

So far no one has crossed the line in this thread but it has been close. If AI think they are getting an unfair deal they are free to come on here and counter any arguments made here.

Just for the record I have still not heard back from AI's "honourable Chairman" about the questions I have asked him as an AI Member.

Another point I would like to make is that most of the people contributing tothis thread ARE AI members like myself. The more I lok into AI the less likely I am to renew my subscription. Openness seems to be a bad word or some thing and transparencey is utterly unheard of. I have found out more about the club I am a member of on these boards than from the club it self. My letter, like other peoples simply gets ignored. I am pissed off with them for that and IMHO I am quite justified in that. You cannot defend the cloak and dager treatment AI members get FROM THEIR OWN CLUB!

Bart.
My Home Page - www.bartbusschots.ie
19 years 4 weeks ago #1724

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

  • Posts: 575
  • Thank you received: 2

Replied by ctr on topic Re: Open Letter to AI/A&S

I feel I've made a small but significant contribution to this debate in particular A & S's inflationary prices.

If you heard Thursdays 5-7 lives ongoning about Rip Off Ireland I got a mention. :D

check out www.rte.ie/news/2004/0108/57live.html

Cross-border pricing comparisons reveal discrepancies

Listeners' emails on the pricing issue 28K

At about 5min into the report

I named the shop and gave the the Irishastronomy.com link for more prices but this did not get mentioned...pity. :(


I hope someone got wise before getting stung. And THIS is why this debate should not be ended as young kids and hard pressed parents are saving their money and are then advised by their club which should be looking after their interests to spend it in an overpriced shop!


MY Blood Boils. :evil:

Conor

ps I know nothing of splits or the like I just see it as it is.

Each of us is here on earth for a reason, and each of us has a special mission to carry out - Maria Shriver

19 years 3 weeks ago #1790

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

  • Posts: 261
  • Thank you received: 0

Replied by jhonan on topic Re: Open Letter to AI/A&S

I named the shop and gave the the Irishastronomy.com link for more prices but this did not get mentioned...pity


Thanks for trying to plug the site Conor, and well done on getting a mention on the show.

You're right in the other things you say, this is all about consumer choice and awareness. It's about letting people know what all their purchase options are and what all the prices are, and then they can decide.

If they want to spend their money with A&S Ltd. at that point, it's up to them. At least they will be making an informed decision.

John.
Everyone in Ireland buys Meade, and they all buy them from Lidl.
19 years 3 weeks ago #1791

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

  • Posts: 8851
  • Thank you received: 237

Replied by dave_lillis on topic Re: Open Letter to AI/A&S

Hi Conor,
I was listening to that same report on the radio about inflated prices in general in this country when it occured to me that maybe I should text in or email in just saying something about those scopes in dublin when I heard your letter been read out, the presenter read out all the details of the scope and sounded abit shocked by the price differance...
Good one.
Dave L. on facebook , See my images in flickr
Chairman. Shannonside Astronomy Club (Limerick)

Carrying around my 20" obsession is going to kill me,
but what a way to go. :)
+ 12"LX200, MK67, Meade2045, 4"refractor
19 years 2 weeks ago #1811

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

  • Posts: 6
  • Thank you received: 0

Replied by Jofus on topic AI and members

Hi folks.

Although not involved in astronomy for some five years or so I used to be active and involved with many groups in the amateur field.

An idea occured to me while reading this thread that might prove stimulating. Its just that - an idea! So feel free to agree/disagree as you will. Im not even sure I completely agree myself as it smacks of oversimplification.

I suspect that AI members fall (in general) into two classes.

The 'passing fad' amateur who will not sustain their interest. All clubs get these and why not! They have as much right as anyone else and their interest is no less legitimate just because it moves on to something else (who knows in years to come they may well return). Perhaps because of the agressive marketing of AI they get a higher proportion of this type of member than other groups?

The amateur with the longer/deeper interest (notice I did NOT say the 'real' amateur). I SUSPECT (without I admit anything more than anecdotal evidence) that after a period of time these members move to (or also join) one of the other bodies IAS,SDAS,IAA,EAAS etc etc.

In case you think I am anti AI I regularily gave public lectures for them taking a years free membership in lieu of a fee including their first ever public lecture in DCU. I know David Moore and ,dammit, like the guy. He has faults and foibles as do we all and irrespective of motives he has raised the profile of astronomy in Ireland. Has he turned some people off astronomy? Undoubtedly but then almost every group has at some time or another. Is he trying to make a living out of astronomy? Yep! But then if you could wouldnt you?

I wish AI every success but I would not buy a telescope from them or recommend to anyone else to do so. Would I recommend anyone to join AI? If it was their closest venue and convenient for them yes I certainly would AND have done on many occasions over twenty years when working at Armagh Planetarium although I always mentioned the alternatives.

Should we stop the bitching and get on with it?
GOD NO NO NO!

The bitching is great fun and enriches all our lives (yes even Davids and hes a big enough boy to take it) so I say:-
Keep bitching and get on with it!!!!!

Bottom line!

Ireland is a small island but nevertheless there is room for us all.

All comments, thoughts and even flames (sigh) welcome.

Regards

John Flynn
That which does not kill us makes us stronger.
19 years 1 week ago #1917

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

  • Posts: 567
  • Thank you received: 0

Replied by spculleton on topic Re: Open Letter to AI/A&S

Wow. That's a breath of fresh air. Isn't it nice to get some perspective on these things. Thanks Jofus.
Shane Culleton.

Dozo Yoroshiku Onegai Shimasu
19 years 1 week ago #1920

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

  • Posts: 6
  • Thank you received: 0

Replied by Jofus on topic Re: Open Letter to AI/A&S

No problem Shane.

I have been out of touch for some years now after a career shift (wish Id done it years ago) and have missed all the gossip.

By the way I hope to go to the AI lecture in early feb and yes I'll be paying my non members fee! (My God thats the first time in thirty years I'll have paid for an astronomy lecture!)

Mabey I can catch up with some juicy gossip then!!!! :wink:

John Flynn
That which does not kill us makes us stronger.
19 years 1 week ago #1924

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Time to create page: 0.114 seconds
Powered by Kunena Forum