Taking this tangent from another thread....

Recording an analemma would be a fascinating project for a teacher. Unfortunately it seems that very few science teachers are interestec in astronomy as a hobby.

I've only met a couple of science teachers (and prospective science teachers) in recent times and I dont think you can blame them for not having an interest in astronomy. Many junior cert teachers for example would only have required knowledge in core subjects, for example how many physicists would know enough to make biology interesting? Im not saying that the teachers dont know the subjects, but I am suggesting that they may not know them in depth enough to make them as intersting as they could

Some people I've met were unaware of the following:
* That you can see the moons of Jupiter in binoculars and record them orbiting.
* That a small telescope shows the rings of Saturn.
* That the ISS is and regularly visible.
* That sunspots are easy to see. (never look directly at the Sun....)
* lunar eclipses happen so often (well more than people think anyway)

Several of these things can lead to interesting small projects (work out the period of Europa, rotation period of the sun...) but I think it will be up to the astronomers to bring this to the teachers.

Perhaps a booklet could be prepared for teachers outlining some introductory astronomy principles and experiments that can be carried out, and of course show how these tie into the syllabus. Then perhaps someone would distribute it to teachers for us (Dept of Ed. / ASTI ?)

This might be a doable project for a few people to get done by the Summer and distributed by September? So any science teachers here have any opinions?

Cheers,
~Al

hi Al,

lots of items of interest there on your post. The ASTI are having their general meeting in Dundalk this weekend and that would have been an opportunity to get an astronomy display of sorts set up. I mentioned it at the IFAS meeting in Tullamore so it might be something to consider for next year.

over the years, I've learned though that there are many, many groups in Ireland with an interest in marrying education and astronomy. I'm not talking astronomy clubs but lots of other science education bodies. In a way -- and I hope no-one feels I'm blowing my own trumpet -- but I'd be one of the few people that has come across virtually all these bodies in one form or another and at some stage in the last decade.

I've spoken with others over a pint about these at times and wondered aloud how an umbrella group could unite them all.

IFAS could do so -- maybe in the guise of an educational subcommittee. I've made a bit of a start in purchasing a domain name (www.skywatcher.ie) when I was planning on creating a one-stop shop where schools and the public at large could get timely and accurate information on what's up in the sky tonight. There will be an emphasis on it being a fun and jargon-free introduction to the hobby. Sadly, other committments have prevented me from doing any work on the site so far.

a subcommittee of the Royal Irish Academy has been investigating the issue of astronomy in schools for at least five or six years but lack of funding is the major stumbling block. I think a small volunteer group could take up this baton and run with us -- with so many schools online, a network of astronomy enthuasiasts could help create a sound and exciting astronomy education web site.

I've a few books on the subject of astronomy education and will be in San Francisco in May where I'm hoping touch base with the Astronomical Society of the Pacific and source some of their educational material. The proposed science centre in Islandbridge is an ideal opportunity to get a representation of astronomy too. iSCAN -- the Irish Science Centre Awareness Network -- have a spring meeting on May 15th (www.iscan.ie) and I'd urge anyone with an interest in science education to attend.

I've also recently been pricing a portable planetarium system manufactured in France. The company have sent me the spec and brochure; total cost 15,000 euro -- not a large sum for a major fundraising effort or actively seeking donations from science-orientated businesses. A small group of volunteers could then visit schools throughout the Greater Dublin area and beyond. Many schools hold Arts and Science weeks -- I used to help out for a day at one in Glasnevin along with Gerry Moloney -- and would be delighted to host planetarium shows.

anyway, got to fly, it's nearly bedtime! Enjoy the rest of the weekend!

John Flannery

Why should a science teacher be interested in astronomy? It's like assuming that a history teacher is involved in the local medieval re-enactment society. At Junior cert level astronomy is a small part of the physics course, and they have to give equal attention to the biology and chemistry courses. At Leaving Cert physics level it is still only a facet of the course, and with teachers and students so hell-bent on points accumulation education is often the first casualty. Rote-learning can become the order of the day.

I wouldn't recommend using the unions as a means of encouraging astronomy-education in our schools. That's not to rule them out of course, but other bodies, such as the science teachers association, physics teachers association, transition year co-ordination body would be more effective. Our esteemed rivals are better known to the average science teacher/student.

The fact is that teachers need a reason to give over their time to teaching astronomy in greater detail. Giving them information such as that suggested by Al may encourage some of them. At the same time it must be acknowledged that students, and people in general, love looking through telescopes. Could the IFAS get involved in some kind of outreach programme that encourages 'telescope nights' in schools?

One interesting "way in" is actually through the new History syllabus. As part of the optional course The USA and the World 1945-1989 the students are required to study the Moon landing of 1969. I'll be teaching this course and part of my strategy will be a debate between students on whether or not the moon landings occured. It's a prime example of how historians should work, ie look at all the evidence and reach a conclusion. It would be useful for many schools to have an "expert" come into the school and speak to the students about the event. Before you run down to your local secondary school to volunteer be careful though; it's a fairly minor, yet essential, part of an optional course. They may not be teaching it. It might be useful though if we prepared some kind of handout for schools on the moon landing.

Here's your cloudy-night challenge:

Devise a twelve week course in astronomy to be taught by a person with at most a passing interest in the hobby and to people who have little or no interest in the hobby (90% of them anyway). This course should include project work which does not cause insurance or liability problems for the school. A form of assessment must also be included.

How much cosmology should be included?
How much time should be spent refuting "bad astronomy"?
Do you emphasis deep-sky or solar system?
Is there a place in this course for discussions of ancient astronomy or even space exploration?
How does a teacher include observation in a course such as this?
Why do students all think that the North Star is the brightest star in the sky?
How do you justify the teaching of astronomy to a school which is finding it hard to juggle all other subjects on an increasingly constricted timetable?
How do you justify the teaching of astronomy to parents who see little more than points totals?
Any other questions?

Hi All

As a science teacher who is a biochemist/virologist by trade can I say I love teaching the astronomy part of science. My students love it too. To get over the problem that school takes place during daylight I have made great use of StarryNight software and a data-projector to try to give the classes an idea of what it is like to start off with naked eye astronomy and then progressing to binoculars. We have had great fun by setting simple challenges such as 'what colour is Betelguese?' When the results came in I used the software to confirm the result with the class. With a couple of students we built a 6' reflector and it is used to project sunspots on occasions as well.

Enthusiasm can go a long way.

You can use the keys, F7 and F8 to make the view in Starry Night Pro go full screen, looks great when projected.

MarkDJ

Hi all,

On reading this string, one thing seemed to stand out to me. Everyone here seems to be concentrating on second level schools. Why not consider National Schools?

I have a seven year old son who loves to come out with me and study the sky (much easier in the winter when it's dark early!). He loves to be able to point out constellations, stars and the planets and was absolutely delighted to be able to see the five naked eye plantets in the sky at the same time! He's also using Winstars and Starry Night Backyard on his computer. I'm just a novice to astronomy and we're both learning it together. then a number of weeks ago, he came home from school all excited and told me that they where learning some astronomy in school as part of their science class. He also told me that the rest of the class loved it.

I feel that maybe this would be the place to sow the seeds of interest in this subject, before syllabus', points and being "cool" become a factor. I know that my son can't get enough of it and loves to tell his friends about what we've see lately, and they love to listen.

It's just a thought........

Hi all,

I must agree with all that is said here. We in Kerry Astronomy club had our first "Outreach session" recently for a local National School and the interest was amazing. We have a short report on our website at homepage.eircom.net/~kerryac/ Follow the Outreach Link.

We also have other schools that are waiting on a clear night!

Michael Scully KAC/SAC

Well done to the KAC for having the courage to put themselves out there. I'm sure that almost every school in the land would jump at the chance to a) show off serious scientific instruments to science students and b) show students some of the objects visible through these scientific instruments.

As regards the point concerning primary schools being neglected in favour of secondary schools, there are two things to consider in my opinion. Firstly, I'm a secondary teacher so I'm biased in that regard, and secondly, it's easier to arrange an observing session for secondary students. Most of the astronomical events that occur during the day, and I'm talking about the kind of things take cause people to pull sickies, we tend to be quite selfish about. Take the Venus occultation on May 21st, or even the Venus transit on June 8th. Would you like to set your scope up for a bunch of school children to look through, or would you prefer to enjoy the entire event yourself? Would you waste those photons on a school science day and possibly miss part of the event yourself? It wouldn't do for an astronomer to go to a school for the Venus occultation and give a running commentary to the kids; "oh, there it goes. You should have seen it!"

While we sit here and discuss this though we have to recognise that there is an enthusiasm on the part of astronomers to get involved in outreach, and a willingness on the part of schools to accept astronomers and their equipment. Can the IFAS bring the two together? Can the IFAS establish an educational subcommittee to contact national curricular organisations or other interested bodies?

It wouldn't do for an astronomer to go to a school for the Venus occultation and give a running commentary to the kids; "oh, there it goes. You should have seen it!"

webcam and projector?

Cheers,
~Al

We don't all have webcams and projectors lying around, nor even the savvy to use them. Some schools might have them, but they're the kind of schools which would really need to know the astronomer before they entrust them with their expensive pieces of equipment, let alone students.

Anybody got any suggestions for what should be left out of a Transition Year astronomy course?

Shane, and others,
that is where it should be left to the local astronomical societies to build a rapport with local schools e.g. TAS has had a hand in local schools and the Youth Center for almost 3 years, giving class-time lectures in science and astronomy. AND, at one stage, we hosted our lectures for about 5 years in the Vocational School in town. THATS how we built up our relations. No society needs to be told how to do their bit for their local schools.

Anybody got any suggestions for what should be left out of a Transition Year astronomy course?

Shane, would you consider doing a questionnaire and/or survey to find out (a) what they know, and (b) what they want to know more about? I don't think there is anything too hard for them, its just down to interest in different areas. The least favoured areas are left behind.

Seanie.

Got a mail from Rob Hill today and in it he mentioned eduspace.

www.eduspace.eurisy.org/

"eduspace - The European Earth Observation WEB SITE for Secondary Schools

The Web-site aims to give to the youth of Europe a portal to space applications and in particular to a wide-spread visibility of Earth Observation as co-ordinated by the European Space Agency (ESA) and its European and National Partners. The Web-site is being developed under the umbrella of EURISY and offers to teachers and students of secondary school in Europe means to bring Earth Observation into the classroom."

Cheers,
~Al