Although all users and all opinions are welcome on these boards we do expect all users to post in a civilized and friendly maner. This is a board for Irish amateur astronomers to get together and have friendly discussions on all matters astronomical.

Your posts have all been extremely abusive to ANYONE who dissagrees with you. You state that only idiots and the brain washed could possibly dissagree with you and you have picked particularly on one of our members. These kinds of posts MUST stop or you will have the dubious honour of being the first person EVER to be banned from these boards.

Clear Skies,

Bart Busschots,
IFAS Webmaster.

Besides a number of borgs, lots of nice folks have disagreed with my notions, as many can't see a darn thing but purely hot rocks as existing on Venus, and if they had provided something of their own thinking and/or of some other resource other than quoting from the NASA moderated bible, as to backing up their argument that all is purely as natural and as hot and nasty as they want myself and all of the world to believe, then I don't fire off any nasty return flak.

BTW; I totally agree that Venus is "hot and nasty", thereby NOT suited for humans, especially of snookered and dumbfounded humans that are also blind.

guthvenus.tripod.com/gv-town.htm
guthvenus.tripod.com/update-242.htm

It seems rather odd, that of every updated report upon Venus that I've noticed over the past three years, there has been reductions in the nighttime thermal conditions, and even an increase in the factors of H2O and of just good old O2, as in a KECK-II imaged that rather large green glow, as of nearly 4 years ago, that which simply should not have been there if the mainstream status quo is to be all there is to know about Venus.

I'll take exception when the words of supposed smart folks are not willing to accept or even toy with any notion whatsoever that includes the least bit of anything artificial at play, as though humanity and of our pathetic WMD limited intelligence is all there is, and Earth is apparently still flat as a pancake, as well as polluting itself to death and otherwise running out of energy at that.

Without my suggesting upon anything artificial at play, I'd like to start off with another topic so that someone might inform us about the nighttime cloud opacity; is it exactly the same as or is it different than daytime?

And I could certainly think of at least a dozen other topics or questions that could exclude anything artificial, although for 360 years astronomers have been doing just that sort of thing about those rather bright illumination spots (such as the Alen heath4.jpg) that simply haven't been defined by the laws of physics as anything all that natural.

So, how about a specific new topic; "Venus Illumination Spots"

Staying "on topic" is by far the most important rule.

Keeping an open mind is perhaps an even more worthwhile rule.

Idea bashing for sport is not the same thing as staying on topic.

Providing information on some cult "need to know basis" isn't helping.

Suggesting that someone is either blind or snookered is only fair play.

Myself and the likes of Walter Cronkite have been snookered for more than 35 years, and now our resident warlord is seriously running humanity amuck, and you and I get to pay for all of that.

I totally agree;
"Imagination is more important than knowledge" - Albert Einstein

I seem to have more than my fair share of said "imagination", along with a few perfectly good Magellan images, and a few of those pesky laws of physics on my side. Other than all of that, I could use all the help possible from the many critics of irishastronomy, as well as friends of humanity.

Bart et all,

I think this cleverless dick is getting a kick out of all this! I actually find him funny at this stage!

How many times does he have to keep going on and on and on and on and on... get my drift? before we have to expel him?

And all we do is feed his insecurity with the notion that what he has is a unique hypothesis, and he is the only one to have come up with this theory... and by golly, his salesmanship leaves alot to be desired! Its a dated theory, and HAS BEEN MORE OR LESS PROVEN TO BE CONFINED TO THE UPPER OUT-OF-REACH SHELVES!

Opinions are opinions, but I wish he would stop forcing his upon us! He's like some religious freak, telling us we won't get into heaven or upper utopia unless we change to his way of thinking, forsaking all others...

...I say, give it up, if any of us want to go to hell, then let us!

Now shut your trap Brad and get a hobby!

:twisted:

Bart et al
Iagree completly with Seanie. Can we send this life form back to venus and let us miserable earthlings remain in ignorance of his mind blowing intellect and ideas. This particular life form seems to have very thick skin and endless amount of time to irritate and annoy us. Maybe we should advise SETI to give up because if this is typical of other forms of life, I think we should stay quiet and let them pass us by. Undoubtly this post will fall on blind eyes across the big pond and more rubbish will find its way to us
BRAD
You do not get it. We dont want your ideas shoved down our throats so maybe you could place them delicately on another website such as www.astronomy.ie where you would reach a larger audience. Hopefully ,BRAD, this is good bye but somehow I doubt it, but go on prove me right just this once once bibi :D :D

Pertaining to the topic of: "Ashen Lights = other life on Venus, NOT as we know it"

"albertw" the thread locking wizard on behalf of "Brian O'Halloran" has struck again. Just as well because absolutely nothing from the likes of Brian O'Halloran offers humanity any hope whatsoever.

Brian O'Halloran; "for the last time - Venus is a dead rock (biologically dead, though geologically probably active), there is certainly no intelligent life there. This is underpinned by 40 years of peer-reviewed data"

Seems I wasn't asking for anything but of expertise feedback and of alternative ideas pertaining to other life on Venus (other than atmospheric microbes or diatoms), never once was I suggesting any notion that the likes of Brian O'Halloran could survive regardless of whatever applied technology because, Lord Brian knows for a bloody fact that life is only possible upon Earth and perhaps Mars where everything is seriously frozen solid into CO2, pulverized and otherwise irradiated to death, and of where there's almost no available energy to boot, much like Earth will become within the next century, if not otherwise extremely greenhouse hot and nasty like Venus.

All I ever received was their absolute flak of mainstrean status quo from the likes of Brian and a slight number of others clearly incapable of thinking outside of their box, or of allowing others to think out side the mainstream box.

Since all of irishastronomy.org can't manage to openly discuss the notions of what and of how so much illumination is emerging from Venus, especially when that's supposedly next to impossible as to happen by way of any natural cause, it thereby must be true that there's a whole lot more to Venus than Irish folks want the public to know about.

It also seems, if I or others do not agree with their mainstream status quo, that of any subsequent arguments are pointless, and as to prove that point their thread locking master "albertw" will terminate the topic, thus terminating the topic edit function.

Brian O'Halloran; "Nothing that you've provided here is going to change my opinion - or indeed anyone else's on this board"

If that's not a perfectly borg like collective overlord of control, then I don't know what is.

In deed, I may contact the likes of Brian O'Halloran off board, with my humble regrets that "I told you so", and of being sorry that I wasn't up to your peer review standards when trying to convey topics on the positive and humanitarian sorts of things that I thought were worth discussing. Obviously the likes of "irishastronomy.org" needs someone of a much higher authority, perhaps Pope like, before they'll budge an inch, much less help the future of humanity.

BTW; the only folks objecting to the discovery of other life elsewhere are the sorts of folks that don't really have all that much to offer life here on Earth, and wouldn't have changed the past even if they could, thus the notion of allowing others to formulate an improved future becomes the ultimate threat to their existence. And that's really too bad because, some of the irishastronomy folks may not be fully integrated into the borg collective, although I do believe time is running out.

"albertw" the thread locking wizard on behalf of "Brian O'Halloran" has struck again. Just as well because absolutely nothing from the likes of Brian O'Halloran offers humanity any hope whatsoever.

... their thread locking master "albertw" will terminate the topic, thus terminating the topic edit function.

BTW; the only folks objecting to the discovery of other life elsewhere are the sorts of folks that don't really have all that much to offer life here on Earth ... some of the irishastronomy folks may not be fully integrated into the borg collective

Congratulations Brad, you've just insulted and alienated all of the posters to irishastronomy.org AND irishastronomy.com in one fell swoop. You've insulted our most frequent poster and made allegations regarding his professionalism as well as the character of Brian O'Halloran. You have implied that any who dare to disagree with you somehow don't have much to offer the world. F**k you Brad. How dare you assume to know me, what I think, what I feel and what I have given or can give to the world? How dare you judge me?

What is a "borg"? Would I be correct in assuming that you are using Star Trek analogies to describe people? Way to mark your card Brad. Do you have all the dvd collections? Like listening to the commentary? Can you speak Klingon? Like to dress up as a Vulcan and fantasise about 7 of 9? Do you get out much? Is there something missing in YOUR life? I find my wonder and my joy every day. I don't need dreams of conquering a distant planet to fulfill myself.

This is supposed to be a topic on Venus, not a place for your rants and diatribes. Your message is a waste of space, as is this reply. I hope both get deleted, and I trust Al will do so, as it is his role as moderator here to ensure people don't have to trawl through crap like this. I've posted my last reply to you Brad. Don't you dare judge me. Don't you dare sit in your swivel chair and look down your nose at us.

BTW; the only folks objecting to the discovery of other life elsewhere are the sorts of folks that don't really have all that much to offer life here on Earth, and wouldn't have changed the past even if they could, thus the notion of allowing others to formulate an improved future becomes the ultimate threat to their existence. And that's really too bad because, some of the irishastronomy folks may not be fully integrated into the borg collective, although I do believe time is running out.

Again, referring to my post further up, why are we still entertaining this chap?

He gives us his opinions on Venus, we give him ours...

He is right, we are wrong....

He's a w***er, we are not...

I know I said I wouldn't respond again publically to Brad, but that after that last post of his I feel I must make a brief (!) comment or two.

First of all - I asked some simple questions of you Brad, and all we got in return was a vicious verbal assault on the motivations and professional integrity of both Al and myself. As I said, I'm not a planetary astronomer (I work in extragalactic stuff), but I'm just stating scientific, peer-reviewed hard facts about Venus. Like or not Brad, that's the way it is. None of your theories will stand up in the light of scrutiny - and it's a poor reflection on you that you feel you must stoop to such an infantile level of behaviour when challenged on them. Indeed, other message boards have been subjected to abuse by you in the past, as a simple Google search for your name will testify. And "peer review standards" are those of the general scientific community, not something that's made up to persecute you. I take it then by your vitriol that your submissions to professional journals were rejected?

I am no 'Borg' - I can perfectly make up my own mind regarding the validity of scientific theories, just because I don't agree with you does not make me or anyone else here an automaton. If you feel no longer welcome here, well, good riddance if you can't behave yourself and observe the rules both here and on the .com site. If you do decide to go, I rather suspect everyone here would bid you a rather less than fond farewell.

Brian

P.S. I have plenty to offer life here on Earth, not that my affairs are any of your business anyway! Goodbye Brad, it certainly was an experience knowing you.....

Right, enough is enough!

Brad, you have NOT complied with my request above. You continue to insult our users with both targeted and un-targetd insults. You have accused me of partaking in some mad conspiracey to silence you and you have insulted the moderators who help keep this place going.

You were given a fair chance to behance in a civilized way and given a fair chance to air your opinions. You aried tem, people dissagreed so you insulted them. That is NOT acceptable. You accuse everyone who dissagees with you of being brain whashed while trying ot brain wash us all into thinking your way!

Enough is enough. You now have the VERY dubious honour of being the first ever user bannedfrom the IFAS site. However, your posts will NOT be deleted because contrary to what you claim this site DOES support free speach and will continue to do so.

Bart B.,
IFAS Webmaster.

Thank God
No more drivel or at least we live in hope
Charles

Thank the gods !!
I'm not from Cork, but if I was, I'd call him a Lan..r

Well done Bart!! getting rid of that Lunatic, maybe now we all can get back to normal amateur astronomy without his views being rammed down our throats.

Ronan (GAC)

In the middle of that nuts rantings I came across this news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/3746583.stm Too scared to post it in case it encouraged him. Suppose its safe now :wink:

Hi,

As one of the moderators that has recieved some less than kind words from this user I though I would post a final response to this.

From his website:

May 28, 2004; Sorry for the delay. I was stuck in another rut, this time it was the overflowing space toilet rut of irishastronomy.org and of their version of dog-wagging hype, spin and damage control on behalf of sucking up to NASA/NSA/DoD or bust. In spite of all that, I've posted a few testy sorts of things that their moderators didn't much like, and so much so upsetting their space-time-continuum that their internet plug was pulled. In spite of all their warm and fuzzy flak, I,ve gotten around to learning a few things and of updating my "Photons at Rest Having Mass" argument, while plugging along with the notions of the Ashen Light aspects of Venus being anything but earthshine.

The phrase "Photons a Rest Having Mass"is a link so I decided to peruse it.

Hubble photon mass = 5.81e-66 gram (as per multiple qualified sources)

People who followed the thread here will know that I asked for references to this mass, which he had claimed he derived himself in another thread. After several posts he provided 3 links which he found through google. www.irishastronomy.org/boards/viewtopic.php?t=546
One of these papers is www.journals.uchicago.edu/ApJ/journal/is...v452n2/5273/5273.pdf this paper describes the calculation of the mass of a specific binary star and makes no reference to photon mass, so one reference he gave he didnt even bother to read.
The other two papers are in fact the same one, published in the Journal of Theoretics, and `independent` journal that wile it claims to be peer reviewd does not list the reviewers, it is also not a recognised scientific journal. Leaving aside the merits or otherwise of the paper, it does come to conclude a theoretical mass of a photon at rest, this is clearly shown from their calculations as theoretical and not implying that there are lots of photons sitting out in the universe doing nothing as Brad would have us believe. For those wishing to study the possible mass issues of the photon arising from string theory I refer you to search at adsabs.harvard.edu/abstract_service.html though be warned the mathematics are in most cases very intense.

From Brads statement and the results of one query put to him we have established that.
1. He is a liar. Citing multiple sources on his webpage and claiming here that he had determined the values he claimed.
2. That he resorts to throwing abuse rather than rational scientific argument. Browse the forum.
3. That he is unaware of the science behind his claims, and also of some basic physics.

All other users here have an understanding of what makes a good post and what does not, so I dont think guidelines need to spelt out again. Just look thorough Brads posts - thats how not to conduct yourself online!

Cheers,
~Albert

Hi Albert,
I also had a look at his website, and talk about complete unreadible crap. :roll:

on behalf of sucking up to NASA/NSA/DoD or bust

He says we suck up these organisations, does he not realise were in a different country and couldn't give a toss about his "DoD'

Nuttier then a fruit case, to put it politely.

Well done Bart, Albert, Brian, Seanie and everybody else who was downright insulted by this unpleasant character. We don't need this sort of behaviour, does this person somehow qualify for the Guinness book of records?
Keith..

Hey! - We got a couple of free links on Brad's site. All the better for the google pagerank.... 8) the .com site even got a mention;

BTW; somehow my words of wisdom about Venus and of the possibility that we've been overlooking some other life, this notion apparently placed their irishastronomy.org mainframe into cardiac arrest. I've managed to re-post somewhat within their less sophisticated irishastronomy.com version, although the official flak started flying within before I could even effectively respond. Thus apparently Irish astronomy folks are NOT so much interested in the truth and nothing but the truth, but rather in sustaining their cozy mainstream status quo, and of apparently doing such at all cost, even if that includes shutting down their entire program. I'm withholding a few analogies for this over-reaction, although at this point there may not be a future of public access into their version of the past, nor of the future to worry about.

Seems that I'm less sophisticated than you lot. Sorry about that. By the way, you've got to show me your mainframe sometime Bart...

Actually, I found a great post in google newsgroups where Brad is convinced that the US government altered the Google 'kernel code' to block his posts. I've got to stop my bitching now, but here's the link for your amusement;

email bashing with virus conspiracy theory

John.

John,
Thanks for the link, its priceless
I particularly like the " crap" response 2/3s of the way down, real fitting !!

Brilliant!!
I especially like the pictures linked to within that "crap" response. Superb!!
Thanks for that John!

Michael

Ah now stop it, my sides hurt from the laughing.

You got to admit though, this guy has a lot of energy and it's kinda been entertaining... like watching a crap film, in that it's so bad its funny but you wouldn't want to watch it again.

I just can't believe this guy exists and devotes his low i.q. to this stuff...

I was actually beginning to think he WAS David Moore, and trying to get us to paint ourselves a black name for our opposing rantings and counter abuse at him!

Clearly "Brad" was dropped many times as a child! Good riddance!

Seanie.

"I was actually beginning to think he WAS David Moore, and trying to get us to paint ourselves a black name for our opposing rantings and counter abuse at him!"

JESUS, This anti DM crap again. If I was DM then I would be instructing my Solicitor to look at all the postings to do with him on this site and figure out if there is a case for libel against him.

I know there are a few people out there who would like to "Lynch" DM but come on folks let's get on with the astronomy. Like it or not A.I. are here to stay. Is jealously the reason for this rancid hatred or is there a different one.

DM might be a GOBSHITE some of the time, but He's not the only one!

Spaceboy

This anti DM crap again. If I was DM then I would be instructing my Solicitor to look at all the postings to do with him on this site and figure out if there is a case for libel against him.....

True, but I was only making a joke! I'll say no more on the topic!



Seanie.

I know there are a few people out there who would like to "Lynch" DM but come on folks let's get on with the astronomy. Like it or not A.I. are here to stay. Is jealously the reason for this rancid hatred or is there a different one.

This tired sad road has been travelled many times before. You know the gripes people have with A I. No one's out to lynch DM, nor has anyone here labelled him a gobshite (that's Brad's job!). I certainly didn't think Seanie was serious. It was just a joke. Get over it.

Okay, so it was a crap joke, but everyone's pretty steamed over Brad and all the hassle he's caused us. People are only letting off some steam. There's nothing more to read into it than that Spaceboy.

Did you raise these issues at the Astronomy Ireland Ltd discussion forum? No? Why not? Could it be that IFAS allows free expression of members while A I does not allow subscribers to express themselves? Don't get annoyed with me - again I'm just venting frustration.

Congrats again to bart, Al &c. on the extreme patience and fairness with which they handled the Venusian controversy.