My thesis project - an astronomy facility for Dublin

Hi, I'm a student of architecture at DIT with an interest in astronomy.

I just wanted to ask the opinions of board members here on a couple of things to do with my college thesis project, which is a proposal for an astronomy facility to cater for amateurs and members of the public in the Dublin area. It seems like I've chosen this topic at a time when coincidentally it a fair bit of discussion is seemingly going on about it (for example the possibility of the usage of Dunsink observatory as an amateur/public facility). My apologies if the questions show my limited knowledge of the subject, hopefully the experts on here can set me right.

Firstly I want to ask - if an amateur observatory were provided for the use of local clubs and interested members of the public, would light pollution be a signifigant enough factor to move it out of the city centre - and how far out do you think might be acceptable? (obviously the trade-off would be between darker skies and relative accessibility)

Secondly what sort of telescope facilities would you like to see provided (i.e. optical, radio or both.. CCD, particular types or brands etc) Also do you think an outdoor observation area would be a good idea?

Thirdly.. public outreach would be an important part of my scheme - I am considering a planetarium, lecture hall, exhibition, workshops etc as part of the project, so I was wondering what opinions people have as to the best way to interest the public in astronomy and the best ways of educating them in these matters.

That's all - if anyone has any info they think might be useful to me I'd be very grateful for the help. Thanks for your time!

hopefully the experts on here can set me right.

The wha?? :lol:


Welcome aboard Richie. I hope we all can be of some service to you in your thesis work!

I suppose from my perspective, I'd just give my experience of your points mentioned.

I lived in Maynooth for 7 years, and I must say, even this was too close for observational comfort regarding light pollution. On my travels at night, even Enfield is affected by Dublin and its suburbs light pollution!
I now live 2 miles from Tyrrellspass, about 45 miles from Maynooth, and I enjoy some of the darkest skies the area has to offer.
This might seem like a long distance to go for setting up a Dublin-based observatory/planetarium, which brings me to my next point:

Why does it have to be in Dublin? There is a far greater amateur (and even professional) astronomical community outside of The Pale. This is mostly due to the fact that more is seen the further from Dublin you go! There are a few thousand amateur astronomers in the countryside (that we in IFAS know of) who are not going to go to Dublin to look at orange haze! Also, there is Schull in Cork, Kingsland in Roscommon, Sligo, and NUI Galway professonal observatories (that I know of anyway) that exist outside of Dublins only one, Dunsink.

So, why can't such a public observatory/planetarium be setup centrally in the country?

Down here in Tullamore, TAS built their own small observatory 2 miles outside the town in 1998. We have 1 acre of land, and we hope to build a clubhouse on the land to have our lectures in, in the not-too-distant-future. We hope to have a 12" mounted in the observatory soon to replace the 6" currently in refurbishment.

And if TAS can be any good to you in your thesis project, just ask us!

There is a far greater interest in your thesis outcome outside of Dublin than what you might think Richie!

And again, good luck on your project - I hope it does your Masters Good!


Seanie.

Welcome Richie,
I wish I could say that Dublin or any city is the ideal place for an observatory, but it isnt.
If you stay in a city as big as Dublin, you'll be confined to the planets, moon and brightests objects in the sky.
The guys in Dublin can tell you how far you'd have to travel to get a dark sky.

If you want to pick somewhere central, how about Birr, it already has a histroic telescope, they have a radio telescope planned there to be built in the next few years, a planetarium would complete the trio.

Maybe a modern telescope in the grounds would be attractive ?
One person mentioned that the Dunsink observatory should be moved to Birr, I chuckled at first but maybe its not such a crazy idea, beats seen it demolished or vandalised!

Welcome aboard!

I have an uncle who works at a public observatory in Belgium, I have had the pleasure to visit it a few times and from what I could see their most important facilities were the meeting rooms for clubs, the fully kited out lecture room for teaching in and the fairly priced astronomy shop. Out side they have one dome with a 28" SMC and a large roll off shed with a 30cm Newtonian and a Celestron C8. There is also a C12 about some where but I don't think its mounted anywhere ATM. They also have loads of Binoculars and tripods as well as some small portable telescopes lile Meade ETXs. They have CCD and radio equipment as well but TBH it hardly ever gets used.

The observatory is in the suburbs of Antwerp city so light polution is a problem but considering the size of the instruments you can still see some really cool shit despite the light polution.

If you want to find out more their web page is at www.urania.be and there is an english language version.

Hope that is of some help,

Bart B.

hopefully the experts on here can set me right.

The wha?? :lol:


Welcome aboard Richie. I hope we all can be of some service to you in your thesis work!

I suppose from my perspective, I'd just give my experience of your points mentioned.

I lived in Maynooth for 7 years, and I must say, even this was too close for observational comfort regarding light pollution. On my travels at night, even Enfield is affected by Dublin and its suburbs light pollution!
I now live 2 miles from Tyrrellspass, about 45 miles from Maynooth, and I enjoy some of the darkest skies the area has to offer.
This might seem like a long distance to go for setting up a Dublin-based observatory/planetarium, which brings me to my next point:

Why does it have to be in Dublin? There is a far greater amateur (and even professional) astronomical community outside of The Pale. This is mostly due to the fact that more is seen the further from Dublin you go! There are a few thousand amateur astronomers in the countryside (that we in IFAS know of) who are not going to go to Dublin to look at orange haze! Also, there is Schull in Cork, Kingsland in Roscommon, Sligo, and NUI Galway professonal observatories (that I know of anyway) that exist outside of Dublins only one, Dunsink.

So, why can't such a public observatory/planetarium be setup centrally in the country?

Down here in Tullamore, TAS built their own small observatory 2 miles outside the town in 1998. We have 1 acre of land, and we hope to build a clubhouse on the land to have our lectures in, in the not-too-distant-future. We hope to have a 12" mounted in the observatory soon to replace the 6" currently in refurbishment.

And if TAS can be any good to you in your thesis project, just ask us!

There is a far greater interest in your thesis outcome outside of Dublin than what you might think Richie!

And again, good luck on your project - I hope it does your Masters Good!


Seanie.

sean,
next time i see you i am going to have to do something about this bias against dublin . i think putting it outside dublin would be silly for 4 reasons:-

1) dunsink is owned by the government and therefore you do not have to purchase any land to build it.

2) it is the first place most people think of in ireland when they hear the word astronomy. that is the kind of advertising you cannot buy.

3) it can be easily supported by the population than if you locate is somewhere down the country that everyone has to visit.

4) dunsink is close to the M50 so it is relatively easy to get to.

the skys are bad around dunsink but not that bad. i live about 2 miles from it and i can see m57 and the blinking nebula quite easily in my 8" lx200. if you put it in the countryside sure you will see faint fuzzy objects but they will not look a huge amount of different than from the city. no telescope is ever going to show the colours in m42 no matter where you live. this would make most of the irrelevant to show people.

i think bart has covered most of the equipment suggestions that you would make. a large scope for detailed views of objects and several portable smaller ones so people can get to see a variety of objects. from doing the open nights in dunsink i think people get bored while queueing for the 12" and then getting a view and then having to queue again if you move to a second object. the did have an 82 sct but that was rarely used. i don't think radio astronomy would be hugely practical unless it was restricted to the sun or jupiter as otherwise you'd need a large dish.

stephen.

Thanks a million for the feedback lads, this kind of info is very valuable for me. I'm sorry if I upset the people outside Dublin the main reason I'd assumed a Dublin location til now is simple population base and ease of access, assuming that with a public facility more people in the vicinity = better visitor numbers. I realise there's kind of a paradox with balancing the need for public accessibility with a requirement for dark skies. I'll definately investigate the possibility of sites in other areas of the country (Dave Lillis mentioned Birr, this is definately a possibility although the strong historic and rural context might be very constraining in terms of the design of a nearby modern structure.. there might be similiar problems with Schull.. this is just from my point of view in terms of freedom of design, which is an issue with a thesis-size project).

That Belgian public observatory site is very interesting (thanks Bart B!), it's surprising to see that they have 6 or 7 facilities of that type (as well as half a dozen planetariums) while nothing on the same scale exists here yet. Given their population is just over double ours and I assume the level of interest in astronomy is around the same we must be due at least 2 working public observatories. They seem to make a huge effort to involve kids and all other areas of society in the hobby, with various kinds of workshops, camps, amateur 'working groups' etc.

By the way: I'm just back from a research trip to London, I enjoyed the Royal Observatory in Greenwich (though they recently closed off some areas in preparation for new building work), very disappointed by the Planetarium though (an hour of pushing through the tacky wax museum and £18 for a ten minute introduction-to-astronomy show is definately not something I would recommend!) and there are some great space exhibits in the Science Museum, like a complete Apollo landing module from one of the test trips around the moon prior to the first landing.