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Higgs Boson Discovery?

6 years 5 months ago #94419 by wbean
I'm hearing a lot of buzz around the Higgs this morning.
I haven't done any digging but it sounds to me like a discovery!

www.telegraph.co.uk/science/science-news...has-been-found.html#

Exciting!

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6 years 5 months ago #94420 by manic_dave
We are holding printing of several newspapers for this. Rumer is teh Americans found it 20 years ago but could not see it in the data, and CERN confirmed the discovery last week.

BIG NEWS!!

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6 years 5 months ago #94421 by manic_dave

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6 years 5 months ago #94436 by mjc
Some caution is still required.

For an official discovery of a new particle we need a detection at 5 sigma and a confirmation by a second independent team - also of five sigma.

Five sigma is a very high bar that the particle physicists set themselves.

What we have is a detection at 5 sigma and a confirmation at 4.9 sigma (all data).
(by choosing two optimal, selective, experimental data sets, the confirmation can be declared to be 5 sigma - but this isn't good science).
Therefore we, strictly, are not quite there. But to deny this detection would be getting very pinickity. I believe they have a new particle.

Question now is - is it the Higgs boson - or something closely related.

Jury is out - but I believe that we have achieved something spectacular.

Mark C.
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6 years 5 months ago #94438 by wbean
Hi Mark.

I'm not sure I understand sigma. Is it the different energy levels at which they perform the experiments at the LHC?

I remember the announcement last year when they said they had made certain detections, but that the lower energy level they were testing at indicated that the higgs might be detectable at higher energies. Or does the sigma number just relate to the kind of particles that they are colliding?

Am I making any sense?

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6 years 5 months ago #94444 by eansbro
One sigma means the results could be random fluctuations in the data,
3 sigma counts as an observation
5-sigma result is a discovery.

Eamonn
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6 years 5 months ago #94445 by johnomahony
It means that the data lies within five standard deviations. It's a statistical term to determine confidence of the data.

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6 years 5 months ago - 6 years 5 months ago #94446 by wbean

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6 years 5 months ago #94451 by PaulWalsh
From what I have read 5 sigma is 99.9999% sure of a discovery

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6 years 5 months ago #94452 by albertw

PaulWalsh wrote: From what I have read 5 sigma is 99.9999% sure of a discovery


This give a good overview of the statistical basics:
www.physicscentral.com/buzz/blog/index.c...=5248358123737529836

Albert White MSc FRAS
Chairperson, International Dark Sky Association - Irish Section
www.darksky.ie/
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6 years 5 months ago #94453 by Nerro
Well that is exiting alright, but I think I will be on the other side of trenches here.
LHC was build to detect Higgs and so far after numerous announcements they still can't give 5 sigma on this.i know I sound like a real skeptick, but I recon all this fuss is only to keep up the funding. And I wouldn't blame them considering the money spent on this experiment. And I really don't think the governments which funded this project would take no for an answer even tho if the experiment would turn out to be a complete fiasco it would be still great achievement for science.
So I think they found something alright but I have a funny feeling that it's going to turn out to be something else. At least that's my thoughts and I would be more than happy to be corrected on this.

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6 years 5 months ago - 6 years 5 months ago #94458 by johnomahony

Nerro wrote: Well that is exiting alright, but I think I will be on the other side of trenches here.
LHC was build to detect Higgs and so far after numerous announcements they still can't give 5 sigma on this.i know I sound like a real skeptick, but I recon all this fuss is only to keep up the funding. And I wouldn't blame them considering the money spent on this experiment. And I really don't think the governments which funded this project would take no for an answer even tho if the experiment would turn out to be a complete fiasco it would be still great achievement for science.
So I think they found something alright but I have a funny feeling that it's going to turn out to be something else. At least that's my thoughts and I would be more than happy to be corrected on this.


Perhaps the announcement is timely but that is understandable. The strength of the Sigma level is strongly dependent on the data sample size (it's all about signal to noise- the bigger sample size the better the s/n ratio). With a few more data points I'm sure they can push the confidence up to 5 sigma.
You may have heard of six sigma or lean six sigma used in design and manufacturing processes- its the same principle.

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6 years 5 months ago #94465 by wbean
It seems they have now achieved 5 sigma.
Has anybody else heard?

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