Time to move up a scope.

15 years 4 months ago #7330 by StephenK
Time to move up a scope. was created by StephenK
Hi,
I am moving up from my 114gt. Here are my choices. Any suggestions on what to go for?
Hardin 12" DSH Dobsonian.
Orion XT12 Intelliscope.
Celestron c10-ngt.
I have already spoken to Dale from DBA about the Hardin. It costs $849 and he will ship it to Dublin for $242. What and how much tax am I liable to pay at the airport?
Anyone have any experience with these scopes.
The Celestron should be good for Astrophotography as its a Newtonian computerscope, right??
Thanks.

Stephen Kershaw
Ktec Telescopes Ltd
085 - 228 8692
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15 years 4 months ago #7331 by DaveGrennan
Replied by DaveGrennan on topic Re: Time to move up a scope.
Stephen,

As far as import duty is concerned you will have to pay the current VAT rate (20% i think) on both the cost of the scope and also on the shipping charges. Basically you pay import duty on the goods and on the cost of getting it into the EU.

As far as astrophotography is concerned you have a couple of things to think about. All of those scopes you mention ar alt/az scopes (even the computerised ones). That means that they move up/down left right rather than having one axis aligned with the earths rotational axis. The upshot of this is known as 'field rotation' this means that after long exposure astrophotography the area you are photopraphing will appear to rotate slightly around in an arc. The phonomenon becomes more noticeable the longer you shoot for and also the part of the sky you photograph. There are a couple of ways around this. First if you choose something like the celestron ngt you can get a wedge to turn this into an 'equatorial' mount. Effectively tilting the scope until its main rotational axis is aligned with the earths rotational axis. With the dobsonian you can get an 'equatorial platform' (expensive) which also tilts the scope in a similar way. Thirdly you can buy (or if your good with electronics, make) a 'field derotator' this is a device which rotates the camera (or entire focusser) in the opposite direction to the field rotation. This option is of course the most complicated option.

My best advice is to consider your priorites. If photography is your main goal then a scope on a 'german equatorial mount' is essential with dual axis drives is essential. If visual astronomy is what you primarily want to do then get the biggest dobsonian you can afford. If you go down this route also consider if your happy to move around a big scope.

Good luck with your choice.

Clear skies,

Dave.

Regards and Clear Skies,

Dave.
J41 - Raheny Observatory.
www.webtreatz.com
Equipment List here

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15 years 4 months ago #7333 by stepryan
Replied by stepryan on topic Re: Time to move up a scope.

Hi,
I am moving up from my 114gt. Here are my choices. Any suggestions on what to go for?
Hardin 12" DSH Dobsonian.
Orion XT12 Intelliscope.
Celestron c10-ngt.
I have already spoken to Dale from DBA about the Hardin. It costs $849 and he will ship it to Dublin for $242. What and how much tax am I liable to pay at the airport?
Anyone have any experience with these scopes.
The Celestron should be good for Astrophotography as its a Newtonian computerscope, right??
Thanks.


stephen.
from expirence you pay vat + customs + airport handling charges + vat on top of all of this. it works out at least 25% of your total cost.
stephen.

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15 years 4 months ago #7334 by StephenK
Replied by StephenK on topic .
The c10ngt, and the Meade lxd75 10" on German equatorial mounts already.

Stephen Kershaw
Ktec Telescopes Ltd
085 - 228 8692
This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
www.ktectelescopes.ie
www.facebook.com/ktectelescopes
www.twitter.com/ktectelescopes

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15 years 4 months ago #7335 by Bill_H
Replied by Bill_H on topic Re: Time to move up a scope.
Hi Stephen,
As a regular importer here are the costs one can expect when importing from outside the UK:
Duty: 6.7%
VAT: 21%
Customs handling fee: €65.00
Airline Handling fee: €40.00
VAT & Duty Fee: €25.00
Airline Attendance fee: €25.00
I checked with my shipping and import agent if these fees still stand if importing for personal use, and they do.
Hope this is helpful to all.
Bill H

Astronomers do it with the lights off.

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15 years 4 months ago #7336 by Bill_H
Replied by Bill_H on topic Re: Time to move up a scope.
Sorry, that should read, from outside the EU into Ireland, not the UK.
Bill H.

Astronomers do it with the lights off.

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15 years 4 months ago #7337 by StephenK
Replied by StephenK on topic .
Really, that many 'handling' charges(airline, customs etc). incl the $242 i pay for shipping. Its still miles cheaper than anything on this side of the Atlantic, but boy do they squeeze you!!!

Stephen Kershaw
Ktec Telescopes Ltd
085 - 228 8692
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www.ktectelescopes.ie
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15 years 4 months ago #7346 by dave_lillis
Replied by dave_lillis on topic Re: Time to move up a scope.
Hi Stepthen,
It comes to one question,

Are you going to do astrophotography ??

If no, get the biggest Dob you can fit inot your car and afford

If yes, you'll need a German EQ mount or a SCT fork mount and a wedge, each has their advantages.
After having both myself, I'd go for the SCT + wedge, it crosses the meridan (the best part of the sky) much easier then german Eq mounts and it requires less space as there is no counter weights or arm.

Make the most of the Euro/Dollar conversion rate while you can.

Dave L. on facebook , See my images in flickr
Chairman. Shannonside Astronomy Club (Limerick)

Carrying around my 20" obsession is going to kill me,
but what a way to go. :)
+ 12"LX200, MK67, Meade2045, 4"refractor

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15 years 4 months ago #7359 by michaeloconnell
Replied by michaeloconnell on topic Re: Time to move up a scope.
Stephen,
I think Dave's advice is worth listening to. Personally, I'm not a big fan of equatorial mounts. There's not the most user friendly. I find a dob or SCT much easier to use. However, if astrophotography is your goal then you may need to consider it. A wedge can be used on an SCT also. However, IMHO, if you want to get serious about astrophotography you need a permanent setup. Accurate polar alignment which will allow really long exposures requires very precise polar alignment. This takes a significant length of time and so and is not the sort of thing you can do "in the field" every single clear night. Besides, to get anyway serious about astrophotography, you'll need to shelter the mount and camera from the wind.

From your list, you've narrowed your choices down to dobs which do offer the best value for money, aperture-wise. When looking for a dob, there are a few things to consider:

1) How good will the mirror be? Do you know where the mirror is coming from? Is it diffraction-limited?

2) Focuser. This is a very much under-rated part of a telescope. For each of the scopes you've selected, try and find out how good the focuser is.

3) Movement in both horz and vert axes. How smooth are they? Will you need to modify the mount after you get it to ensure it will work smoothly?
Somttimes it's best to pay a little extra on a scope initially in order to avoid future problems.

A site worth looking at is www.cloudynights.com
They have loads of reviews on various telescopes. It's likely that they have reviewed some of the scopes you have mentioned. Also, make sure you use the imternet to it's best to find out what owners have to say about their new scope.

Also, check out http://www.discovery-telescopes.com/scopes.html and a list of manufacturers & retailers are here: http://www.r-clarke.org.uk/astrolinks_vendors.htm

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15 years 4 months ago #7368 by StephenK
Replied by StephenK on topic .
Sorry guys, I made a balls of posting this earlier....anyway,
Yes I have used cloudy nights extensively in my search for an upgrade.
One question I do have is this-
Are 10/12" dobs difficult to use. I mean like visually tracking an object with a 6/9mm ep must be quite hard, or does it just seem hard. It hard enough with the hand controller on a 4.5" goto scope (when I havent bothered aligning it and just want a quick peak at things).
Someone who uses a dob might convince me.. :D

Stephen Kershaw
Ktec Telescopes Ltd
085 - 228 8692
This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
www.ktectelescopes.ie
www.facebook.com/ktectelescopes
www.twitter.com/ktectelescopes

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15 years 4 months ago #7370 by dave_lillis
Replied by dave_lillis on topic Re: .

Sorry guys, I made a balls of posting this earlier....anyway,
Yes I have used cloudy nights extensively in my search for an upgrade.
One question I do have is this-
Are 10/12" dobs difficult to use. I mean like visually tracking an object with a 6/9mm ep must be quite hard, or does it just seem hard. It hard enough with the hand controller on a 4.5" goto scope (when I havent bothered aligning it and just want a quick peak at things).
Someone who uses a dob might convince me.. :D


The club here has a 13" Dob which I used for a number of years,.
The main thing I found with Dobs is that it really helps if the tube is balanced (up/down), compare it to driving a car where the front wheels aren't tracked properely with one that is tracked. The untracked car is a pain to drive were you feel like your fighting the thing the whole time, while the other is a pleasure. I used to have a fiesta years ago where if I left go of the steering wheel , I'd be in the ditch in seconds :?

The second point is that the 2 axises must not be too stiff, so that a small nudge is all that is needed to keep an object in the feel of view, I found I could use high mags if these 2 criteria were kept to.

GOTO isn't the be-all and end-all, for me the tracking ability of a GOTO scope is more important then the actual GOTO feature, so using a handcontroller is a small bonus.

Dave L. on facebook , See my images in flickr
Chairman. Shannonside Astronomy Club (Limerick)

Carrying around my 20" obsession is going to kill me,
but what a way to go. :)
+ 12"LX200, MK67, Meade2045, 4"refractor

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15 years 4 months ago #7372 by StephenK
Replied by StephenK on topic .
I have spent ages surfing for scopes and I came across a particular scope. Its for sale in a few places in the UK.
Its a Skywatcher Explorer 250px, its on a motor driven EQ6 mount, and it comes with camera adaptor etc. The scope is on www.skywatchertelescope.net .
What do you all think?
Thanks for the informed replies,
Stephen.

Stephen Kershaw
Ktec Telescopes Ltd
085 - 228 8692
This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
www.ktectelescopes.ie
www.facebook.com/ktectelescopes
www.twitter.com/ktectelescopes

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15 years 4 months ago #7373 by batmax
Replied by batmax on topic Re: Time to move up a scope.
Hi, fwiw, http://www.hoo-germany.de/ are offering a 10" Synta (skywatcher) PX Dob for €569. I spoke with the guy and he indicated less than €50 for shipping and also kindly offered to further deduct German VAT (16%) if I'd take responsibility for sorting out my own tax affairs.... I haven't actually done business with him, but the price looks keen if you're in the 10" Dob market. Downside is that he doesn't take credit cards.

Rgds,
Austin

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15 years 4 months ago #7408 by Eugene Burke
Replied by Eugene Burke on topic Re: Time to move up a scope.
Hi Stephen,
Just to give you an idea re tracking times Tonight I used a 9.5mm Orion ED eyepiece APP FOV 55deg on a 2x barlow on my 8" dob@1200 mm fl ,which gives about 252x magnification, on Saturn, which was about 45 deg above horizon.It took 32 seconds for Saturn to cross the field of view of the eyepiece.
Another point is that the amount of nights you'll get suitable for high power viewing are limited.
If Photography is not a major priority a dob is an excellent instrument as it takes about 1 minute to get viewing and as telescope advisers tell you the most suitable scope is the one you'll use most often.
Hope this is of some help
Eugene

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15 years 4 months ago #7411 by DaveGrennan
Replied by DaveGrennan on topic Re: Time to move up a scope.

Hi Stephen,
As a regular importer here are the costs one can expect when importing from outside the UK:
Duty: 6.7%
VAT: 21%
Customs handling fee: €65.00
Airline Handling fee: €40.00
VAT & Duty Fee: €25.00
Airline Attendance fee: €25.00
I checked with my shipping and import agent if these fees still stand if importing for personal use, and they do.
Hope this is helpful to all.
Bill H


Jeez really?? Even if I buy something for say 250euro I still have to pay all of that. Its not the Vat/Duty bit that bothers me its all of those handling fees. Now that is a bloody ripoff! €155 for just doing their job?

WHy does the airline charge handling fees. SUrely they have nothing to do with it? They get paid by the shipping company to fly the goods. Once their offloaded to the ground staff thats their job done. The payment of duties happens after they finish their job.

I'm beginning to think it might be cheaper to get a cheapo flight to NYC buy the gear and then..... no I better not say that.........

Scandalous.

Dave.

Regards and Clear Skies,

Dave.
J41 - Raheny Observatory.
www.webtreatz.com
Equipment List here

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15 years 4 months ago #7420 by Bill_H
Replied by Bill_H on topic Re: Time to move up a scope.
It's the airlines responsibility to hold the shipment until such charges and duties are paid. The ground staff that the shipment is off-loaded to are employees of the airline. So if you have an article shipped into Ireland with say, Delta Airlines, then they and their staff have to hold the goods until customs etc tell them they can be released. I would assume that is where their handling charges come from. But, like many, I am guilty of not questioning the reasons, I have faith in my Import Agent. but as you say, no matter how little the cost of the item, those are the charges made. I imported plants from the Philippines at a cost of around US$600, all those charges took the total cost to around €900 + FOB shipping charges of about €300 (FOB being the only and most expensive way that most countries will ship). It's quite shocking really. I also have to pay a fee on top of that to my agents, but in comparison, it's nothing, and they work their butts off to process everything for me.
Bill H

Astronomers do it with the lights off.

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