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Apple INTEL Macs

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Apple INTEL Macs was created by ayiomamitis

Guys,

I am eager to dump Windows once and for all. Recently Apple announced the availability of INTEL-based Macintosh computers which should remove part of the Motorola-Intel incompatibility which existed for the past two decades.

I was wondering to what extent PC Windows programs will now be able to work under the Mac environment and the INTEL processor? I realize that part of the problem would be software which is partially dependent on Windows (ex. registry keys) but I was wondering (and hoping) that the Intel-based Macs would be a way out of the sadistic world of the PC Windows environment.

Thanks!
Anthony Ayiomamitis
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14 years 10 months ago #65373

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Replied by Petermark on topic Re: Apple INTEL Macs

Might be helpful:

www.macwindows.com/winintelmac.html

(I have no personal experience of this mind you!)
Mark.
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14 years 10 months ago #65378

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Replied by Jared Macphester on topic Re: Apple INTEL Macs

Anthony

There is no compatibility issue. When windows is installed it is a windows computer. You choose at boot time wether you are booting windows or OS X.
I manage an 'ordinary' windows network (NT/2k/XP/ + servers etc) I have been successfully introducing the intel macs (running windows) to this mix over the last year with no issues.

JMP
14 years 10 months ago #65380

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Replied by Petermark on topic Re: Apple INTEL Macs

When windows is installed it is a windows computer.

Therefore STILL in the "Sadistic World" surely !
Mark.
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14 years 10 months ago #65381

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Replied by amckinstry on topic Re: Apple INTEL Macs

Using Intel macs for some time; its fairly straightforward to run other software (Windows or Linux).

You have two choices: installing boot camp, so that you can boot into either Windows OR OS X, or buying virtualisation software (I use Parallels)
which allows you to run Windows/Linux/etc. within OS X. Works well, and
my preferred solution.
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14 years 10 months ago #65382

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Replied by fguihen on topic Re: Apple INTEL Macs

Hi Anthony.

You will not be able to dump windows completely. You will have to install either bootcamp or parallels on your mac, which will allow you to run windows on the mac to host your windows programs.

Bootcamp allows you to have OSX and Windows on the same machine. During bootup you hold down shift and you are presented with a screen to choose what OS you want to boot into. If you boot into windows from here, its just like any computer using windows, the windows OS has full access and control of the pc.

Parallels allows you to run windows from within OSX, giving windows access to hardware via a virtual machine. You decide before opening windows, how much resources to dedicate to the parallels app. Parallels gives these resources to windows. if you maximize the parallels window its as if your using a windows machine. the windows desktop is visible to you and you can install software here that will be accessable via parallels. There is a mode called "coherence mode" in parallels that allows you to run windows, but all you see is the app you want to use, and not the whole windows expirience. The app when running even has a little icon on the OSX dock. I use this method quite a bit.

I dont think you can decoupple from windows completely but mac offers a decent compromise.

If you go down the parallels road, it might be best to stick wtih XP and not vista. vista works, but it takes a bit of tweaking and some calls to MS Support to iorn out licensing issues.
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14 years 10 months ago #65383

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Replied by ayiomamitis on topic Re: Apple INTEL Macs

Gents,

A heartfelt thanks for the advice, suggestions, tips, links etc.

I am determined in trying to detach myself from Windows as soon as possible, for this sadistic relationship has gone on for long enough and must come to an end! I really like the possibilities that Parallels offers and especially in "coherence" mode.

I have also confirmed that user files are portable between platforms and that ports such as USB and firewire are also compatible within a Mac environment. What I see happening is for an install of Windows XP in a partition which will be strictly for Windows software and nothing else.
Anthony Ayiomamitis
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14 years 10 months ago #65388

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Replied by dogstar on topic Re: Apple INTEL Macs

I have also confirmed that user files are portable between platforms and that ports such as USB and firewire are also compatible within a Mac environment. What I see happening is for an install of Windows XP in a partition which will be strictly for Windows software and nothing else.


Anthony i have just installed Fedora in a partition on a xp OS.
Im only getting used to it but first impressions it seem's pretty
neat.USB work fine with it also.
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14 years 10 months ago #65390

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Replied by fguihen on topic Re: Apple INTEL Macs

anthony, note using parallels you still are couppled to running windows in order to host your win apps.

if you have windows apps, there is no way you can run them on any other platform other than windows. you will have to get versions released for specific platforms.

it is too bad that most software is released for windows.

of course, if the apps are written in .NET you could get the source and recompile them using Mono ( .NET implementation for unix) and then it would run on MAC, but chances are all your apps are C/C++ and no company would give you the source anyway.
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14 years 10 months ago #65391

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Replied by voyager on topic Re: Apple INTEL Macs

Hi Anthony,

Parallels is a great solution but you may be surprised how little you end up using it. I made the switch away from Windows three years ago and at this point in time I do not run Windows on any of my Macs in any way. There is not a single computer in the house that runs Windows and I don't miss it at all.

I've found mac versions or Mac equivalents for all the software I use, hence no more parallels or bootcamp or windows. Just a pleasent and stress-free computing environment.

Bart.
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14 years 10 months ago #65398

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Replied by ayiomamitis on topic Re: Apple INTEL Macs

Hi Al,

Thanks for the vote of confidence surrounding my decision to pursue an Apple solution.

A few days ago I downloaded Apple's SAFARI web browser as a first step towards my acclimatization and conversion to Apple ... I have also confirmed that my email client (Mozilla Thunderbird) has a Mac version ... and ditto for my email previewer (Mailwasher Pro) which is also available for the Mac.

Other needs to be confirmed include FTP software as well as astro related goodies (SkyMap Pro, TheSky Pro, CCDSoft, Maxim/DL, Photoshop CS2, NeatImage and ULead Manager). I know that AIP4Win will not work under a strict Mac INTEL environment which means I will need a Win XP partition and Parallels for at least this piece of vital software.

Oh yeah, I must also check to see if Virtual Moon Atlas, Adobe (PDF) and Canon EOS software will work on their own and as standalone products.

That should cover my most basic and critical needs.
Anthony Ayiomamitis
Athens, Greece
www.perseus.gr
14 years 10 months ago #65400

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Replied by fguihen on topic Re: Apple INTEL Macs

Has this become a windows bashing thread? if so i might have to pipe up in its defence... :wink:
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14 years 10 months ago #65401

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Replied by ayiomamitis on topic Re: Apple INTEL Macs

Has this become a windows bashing thread? if so i might have to pipe up in its defence... :wink:

Fintan,

I first got into the PC computing environment when these computers first appeared. In other words, I got in at ground zero (Commodore PET, Atari, Apple 2+/2e/LISA). Eventually I stuck with the Apple computers for a variety of reasons until IBM came out with their PC/DOS offering. At that point I was a very happy user with DOS which was very stable and basically a clone of UNIX (I knew UNIX at the time). However, once Windows 3 came out is when my problems (and everyone else's started) and this is something which has continued for two decades.

One problem I have is that of too much patience. However, even I have limits and these limits have been exhausted. The straw that broke the camel's back is the problems I have been trying to solve the past week with very poor performance which appeared out of no where.

As much as I love hacking and problem solving, I am not interested in learning the corrupt intricacies of Windows so as to fix unnecessary problems as they arise. Software should serve the user and not the other way around.

Anyway, I honestly have had enough of the countless problems the past two decades and I will put an end to this nightmare with the first opportunity. In retrospect, it is something I should have done some time ago but, as I said, I have too much patience.
Anthony Ayiomamitis
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14 years 10 months ago #65402

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Replied by voyager on topic Re: Apple INTEL Macs

Other needs to be confirmed include FTP software as well as astro related goodies (SkyMap Pro, TheSky Pro, CCDSoft, Maxim/DL, Photoshop CS2, NeatImage and ULead Manager).


For FTP you can use the very good and very free CyberDuck (www.cyberduck.ch). As for astronomy softare, there are definitely packages out there which will allow you to control telescopes etc from OS X. I'm 99% sure there is a Mac version of Starry Night and I'm sure there are other big names too. No idea what Maxim/DL, ULead Manager or NeatImage do but I'd be very surprised if there weren't Mac equivalents out there. As for PhotoShop, it used to be Mac only so no worries there!

Something I'd suggest is not thinking in terms of software but thinking in terms of tasks. What you need is high quality software to allow you to do all the tasks you need to do. You don't actually need a Mac version of a particular piece of software.

I know that AIP4Win will not work under a strict Mac INTEL environment which means I will need a Win XP partition and Parallels for at least this piece of vital software.


BTW, with parallels you don't need a separate Windows partition. All of Windows lives in one single file! Dead easy to back up that way, and it only wastes as much space as you are actually using. When you're installing you do have to specify a maximum sixe to allow the virtual drive to extend to but it will only take up the amount of space you actually use.

Oh yeah, I must also check to see if Virtual Moon Atlas, Adobe (PDF) and Canon EOS software will work on their own and as standalone products.


Don't worry about softare for your digital camera. That all comes built with your Mac. Remember, the Mac is where most proffessional photographers live. You get iPhoto free with your Mac and it can talk to just about every remotely modern digital camera. Just plug it in and it will work.

If you want to work on RAW images then Aperture is a fantastic piece of software to get, or LightRoom from Adobe. Compared to photoshop both are cheap (less than a third the price).

If you get stuck doing any particular thing please feel free to drop me a PM, I may well be able to recommend some good software.

Regards,

Bart.
My Home Page - www.bartbusschots.ie
14 years 10 months ago #65403

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Replied by fguihen on topic Re: Apple INTEL Macs

all il say is windows sure has its flaws, but it has many many many saving graces, and all the alternatives are not without their inadequacies.

I use both Mac and windows, with usage time divided up roughly 60/40, the 60 % being the windows usage time.

both have good points. both have bad points. I guess its down to preference.

I say dont tie yourself to one or the other, but utilize both.
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14 years 10 months ago #65404

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Replied by voyager on topic Re: Apple INTEL Macs

all il say is windows sure has its flaws, but it has many many many saving graces, and all the alternatives are not without their inadequacies.

I use both Mac and windows, with usage time divided up roughly 60/40, the 60 % being the windows usage time.

both have good points. both have bad points. I guess its down to preference.

I say dont tie yourself to one or the other, but utilize both.


For me personally Windows is just death by paper cuts. Lots of little things that just keep nagging and nagging me. That on top of the fact that I want to be able to use my resources for myself, not for my OS!

My main machine is a three year old MacMini running a processor that's three generations behind. I have a single core 1.25GHz G4. Since the G4 we have had the G5, the 32bit Intel Core Duos, and the 64Bit intel Core 2 Duos. My machine has about a fifth the GHz of a modern machine, and is only 32bit. It does have a gig of RAM though. It runs the very latest version of OS X FLAWLESSLY. In fact, since I got it there have been two OS X releases, both SPEEDED UP my Mac! Try saying that about a Windows machine! It also does transparencies and all that jazz that Vista wants 128MB of graphics RAM for on a puny 32MB of graphics RAM.

Basically, I'm running a more advanced OS than Vista on a machine that wouldn't have a hope in hell of running even Vista basic to a remotely acceptable level.

Things are also simpler. I have no idea what drivers are. There must be some under the hood somewhere but I never have to worry about them. My printer, I just plugged it in and it worked. My scanner, the same. My external burner, same. You name it, all my hardware just works. It's such a relief not to have to worry about Drivers.

It's also great not to have to run AV software. Sure, you can't be brazen either. You still need to watch out for phishing and trojans but there's nothing out there constantly attacking you! Of course that could change in the future, but that's no reason not to enjoy it now!

There is also a fabulous Mac community. I just don't see that around the PC world. To me that's worth a lot.

Anyhow, I find I have leaner, yet more feature rich, pretty and user-friendly OS, I have a fantastic variety of quality apps, and I'm not constantly under attack. That's why I never went back to Windows after putting my toe into the Mac pond.

Bart.
My Home Page - www.bartbusschots.ie
14 years 10 months ago #65405

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Replied by ayiomamitis on topic Re: Apple INTEL Macs

I know that AIP4Win will not work under a strict Mac INTEL environment which means I will need a Win XP partition and Parallels for at least this piece of vital software.


BTW, with parallels you don't need a separate Windows partition. All of Windows lives in one single file! Dead easy to back up that way, and it only wastes as much space as you are actually using. When you're installing you do have to specify a maximum sixe to allow the virtual drive to extend to but it will only take up the amount of space you actually use.

Music to my ears with the single file since I can make a new copy of Win XP when loading new Windows-only software so that my greatest exposure ever is the one copy of Windows without affecting anything else.

See the beauty of Mac?! :mrgreen:
Anthony Ayiomamitis
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14 years 10 months ago #65406

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Replied by fguihen on topic Re: Apple INTEL Macs

again, my point is, dont tie yourself to any of them, then you cant be let don by either.

I dont have any problems with the windows user interface. its different from OSX, not necessarily better or worse. when i got the mac first it drove me nuts until i got used to it. its just a matter of getting used to using it.

I run vista on 2 computers and I have never once had to deal with drivers, everything just works, to steal a phrase from Mr Jobs.

I also cant see how OSX is more advanced than windows, i actually find it more basic. windows has much much more, if you need or want it is up to you.

with regards to the Mac community, i find them more like extreemists. mostly if you mention windows within 100 yards of most of them you will be stoned as if you said Jahova in the life of brian. seriously, mention windows on any mac forum see the flame war that starts. that kind of blind faith is completely useless and unhelpfull.

I will agree with you on the virus scanner issue, but as mac becomes more popular, i garuntee that sooner or later you will need a virus scanner for the mac. see where it is in 5 years in relation to this point.

The fact that windows has so many viruses targeting it is due to its popularity. why would a malicious coder spend their time coding a virus that would only affect 5% of the pc's in the world when it can target 95% of the pc's in the world.


I have to repeat myself, im not pro windows, im not pro OSX, but i am against bashing windows just because you have found a "different" operating system that doesnt give you the troubles windows gives you. you delve deep enough OSX will give you plenty of problems.
"Success is the happy feeling you get between the time you do something and the time you tell a woman what you did." Dilbert.
14 years 10 months ago #65407

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Replied by ayiomamitis on topic Re: Apple INTEL Macs

Fintan,

To follow-up on your comments above, I will reformat my problematic DELL laptop with a fresh copy of Win XP and reinstall my image acquisition and processing software ... nothing more. I will leave the new Mac laptop for everything else including surfing.

Hopefully under such a scenario, I can have the best of both worlds as you mentioned earlier.
Anthony Ayiomamitis
Athens, Greece
www.perseus.gr
14 years 10 months ago #65409

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Replied by voyager on topic Re: Apple INTEL Macs

I dont have any problems with the windows user interface. its different from OSX, not necessarily better or worse. when i got the mac first it drove me nuts until i got used to it. its just a matter of getting used to using it.


It's less efficient and more cluttered. More clicks to do the same thing, lots of superflous text and clutter, particularly in explorer and in the control panel. Having to read too much does my head in. A picture says a thousand words and all that.

You also have far more consistency across all apps. I simply adore the way just about all Mac apps look like Mac apps, no matter who wrote them. They also all work the same way. There are standard places for things and 3rd party developers follow them too.

Power user heaven, you can re-arrange the menubars in just abotu all apps and add in more stuff. Just right-click and click customise. You can drag and drop file and folders you need to get at easily into the menubar of the finder as well as the side bar.

Then you come to the now fabulous in-built search. It's fantastic at finding documents but it does way more. It's a great application launcher, a dictionary and a calculator, all one click or one two-key key-combo away at all times. Then QuickLook. View documents without opening applications. Select the file and hit spacebar. That's it. Effectively instant previews.

Then Exposee. f8, f9, f10, f11 and f12, I'm lost without them.

I also cant see how OSX is more advanced than windows, i actually find it more basic. windows has much much more, if you need or want it is up to you.


Don't consider this an exhaustive list by any means:

1) Exposee
2) Spaces
3) SpotLight
4) QuickLook
5) TimeMachine - effortless built-in backup
6) The Core components which give all developers access to the cool graphics and animations that make the Mac so nice. Thanks to the core libraries developers can do imensly complex graphics stuff on the GPU of any Mac that has one with a simple function call. That's why we have so many great creative apps on the Mac
7) The iLife Suite. Powerful photo, video, music and web editing out of the box as well as iDVD for creating DVDs with menus and of course iTunes.
8) Automator - drag-and-drop automation. Programming without the need to type a character
9) Apple-script - powerful but insanely simple programming allowing automation of just about every app on the Mac
10) Certified UNIX - all your fancy Unix software and services and a proper command-line
11) Built-in X11 - all your favourite graphical Linux and unix apps on your Mac

You get the idea. It's a pretty powerful OS which is way more feature-rich than Vista. It really is power-user heaven. Windows just doesn't let me work as efficiently as OS X does when you get to the stage where you are using all the optional power-features.

with regards to the Mac community, i find them more like extreemists. mostly if you mention windows within 100 yards of most of them you will be stoned as if you said Jahova in the life of brian. seriously, mention windows on any mac forum see the flame war that starts. that kind of blind faith is completely useless and unhelpfull.


That is the case on some forums but not all. Thank Christ! The communities that are established around the new regular-user apple podcasts are much friendlier. I'm happy to be an active part of that community contributing regularly to two such podcasts. They're not about Windows bashing and some even feature Windows software and many have a real love of cross-platform software.

I will agree with you on the virus scanner issue, but as mac becomes more popular, i garuntee that sooner or later you will need a virus scanner for the mac. see where it is in 5 years in relation to this point.


I don't think so. The focus in security has shifted. The focus used to be on fixing flaws in programs so the baddies couldn't expliot them. Now the focus is on exploitation prevention. Basically hardening the OS so that flaws in programs can't be used as back-doors into the OS. The big steps forward on this are:

1) Sandboxing
2) Data Execution Prevention
3) Memory Randomisation

OS X does all three, as indeed does Vista. It's been a year, have you seen a major worm of the Code Red or Blaster level affect it yet? Nope. I was listening to the Network Security podcast last night and one of the hosts says he doesn't run AV on Vista or OS X for the same reasons. Both OSes are hardened agaisnt exploitation so they are much safer by design than XP or the other windows versions. I'm expecting this trend to continue. As the OS makes it harder and harder for flaws to become expliots the threat will shift back to the more traditional things like email attatchments. Common-sense is enough to protect you from those kinds of threats, you don't need AV chewing up your RAM and CPU for that!

I may of course be wrong, but I'm seeing encouraging signs that I'm not ... and some people who are way smarter and who know way more than me agree :) .. so lets hope!

The fact that windows has so many viruses targeting it is due to its popularity. why would a malicious coder spend their time coding a virus that would only affect 5% of the pc's in the world when it can target 95% of the pc's in the world.


Mac make up 14% of consumer sales in the US according to numbers that came out this week. That's getting pretty signifficant. Internet statistics are showing that about one in ten web surfers is now on the Mac. It's fast becoming less obscure. I think a signifficant factor is now the fact that OS X is a more difficult OS to exploit than XP because it does DEP and all that jazz while XP doesn't. XP is dominant so it is doubly screwed, it's easier to attack, and there's more XP machines out there. Should Vista take off then things could get a lot more interesting. Vista is much more hardened than XP.

I have to repeat myself, im not pro windows, im not pro OSX, but i am against bashing windows just because you have found a "different" operating system that doesnt give you the troubles windows gives you. you delve deep enough OSX will give you plenty of problems.


There are imperfections everywhere. I have a shopping list that I'd love to be able to give Steve Jobs of things I want changed, added, removed and fixed. Thing is, my list for Steve Balmer is WAY longer. And don't get me started on my list for the RedHat people :)

I actually think that the more of a power user you are and the more of a sys-admin type you are the more advantages OS X starts to present. If you're never going to use any of the power features then they may as well not exist!

Bart.
My Home Page - www.bartbusschots.ie
14 years 10 months ago #65410

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Replied by voyager on topic Re: Apple INTEL Macs

Fintan,

To follow-up on your comments above, I will reformat my problematic DELL laptop with a fresh copy of Win XP and reinstall my image acquisition and processing software ... nothing more. I will leave the new Mac laptop for everything else including surfing.

Hopefully under such a scenario, I can have the best of both worlds as you mentioned earlier.


If you keep the XP machine off the net and avoid installing anything you don't need it should be fine. It should just let you get on with image aquisition and stay out of you way.

Bart.
My Home Page - www.bartbusschots.ie
14 years 10 months ago #65412

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Replied by fguihen on topic Re: Apple INTEL Macs

eh well, each to their own bart, unless your a mac extreemist i mentioned earlier :?: In which case i whole hartedly apologies for saying windows in teh same sentence as OSX, apologies for even considering windows as an OS :P im not going to bother compiling such a list as you have done here. its not worth it. you sound like an IT pro, you are most likely aware of the good points of windows but chose to ignore them.dedicate yourself to one system, and when you get stung, no need to tell anyone, just remember this conversation...
"Success is the happy feeling you get between the time you do something and the time you tell a woman what you did." Dilbert.
14 years 10 months ago #65414

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Replied by voyager on topic Re: Apple INTEL Macs

eh well, each to their own bart, unless your a mac extreemist i mentioned earlier :?: In which case i whole hartedly apologies for saying windows in teh same sentence as OSX, apologies for even considering windows as an OS :P im not going to bother compiling such a list as you have done here. its not worth it. you sound like an IT pro, you are most likely aware of the good points of windows but chose to ignore them.dedicate yourself to one system, and when you get stung, no need to tell anyone, just remember this conversation...


Actually, I'm the Windows networking expert at work. I know more about the bowls of Windows than I want to and a lot of it unsettles me. Vista is a step in the right direction from a security point of view. It's just a pitty it's so insanely bloated and that it didn't actually add anything significant to the user interface. It just make it all a little prettier and a LOT resource hungrier, that's it. I have high hopes for Windows 7, but only time will tell.

I'd also like to think that I'm by no means a zealot. I do really like OS X, but unlike zealots I know why I like it. Ultimately it lets me get more done with less effort. I also have no objection to people mentioning Windows. I have a professional exposure to Windows, Mac and Linux. Right now Mac is the leader of the pack in my professional opinion. That may change.

Bart.
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14 years 10 months ago #65415

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Replied by ayiomamitis on topic Re: Apple INTEL Macs

Fintan,

To follow-up on your comments above, I will reformat my problematic DELL laptop with a fresh copy of Win XP and reinstall my image acquisition and processing software ... nothing more. I will leave the new Mac laptop for everything else including surfing.

Hopefully under such a scenario, I can have the best of both worlds as you mentioned earlier.


If you keep the XP machine off the net and avoid installing anything you don't need it should be fine. It should just let you get on with image aquisition and stay out of you way.

Precisely. I will use a lower capacity hard drive since the number of wares to be loaded is minimal and it will be strictly for image acquisition and nothing else.

Question: When reloading Win XP on an existing Win XP hard drive, does the software load the OS on specific tracks, thus effectively only overwriting the previously loaded OS and thereby leaving the user files (software and data) in tact or is the whole hard disk initialized prior to the new reinstall? I know with previous versions we had the FAT (file allocation table) which described the name and physical location of each file on the hard disk and which was overwritten (ie. initialized) with any install of the OS.
Anthony Ayiomamitis
Athens, Greece
www.perseus.gr
14 years 10 months ago #65417

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Replied by voyager on topic Re: Apple INTEL Macs

Question: When reloading Win XP on an existing Win XP hard drive, does the software load the OS on specific tracks, thus effectively only overwriting the previously loaded OS and thereby leaving the user files (software and data) in tact or is the whole hard disk initialized prior to the new reinstall? I know with previous versions we had the FAT (file allocation table) which described the name and physical location of each file on the hard disk and which was overwritten (ie. initialized) with any install of the OS.


The installer gives you a choice. You can install over the previous install or format and then install. Personally I like to get a compeltely fresh start. And then de-frag the hell out of the drive before installing anything so that the OS is nice and contiguous. Then do the same after software installation.

Bart.
My Home Page - www.bartbusschots.ie
14 years 10 months ago #65419

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