Interesting article on Astromart

www.astromart.com/news/news.asp?news_id=606

Regards,

A further article on it here from Nature:

www.nature.com/nature/journal/v444/n7119/full/444534a.html

Regards,

Michael.

Your timing is somethign else ... I spent all morning at the National Archaeological Museum (Athens) and here is the proof: www.perseus.gr/Astro-Greek-Archae-Astr-Antikythera.htm ... enjoy.

Michael.

Your timing is somethign else ... I spent all morning at the National Archaeological Museum (Athens) and here is the proof: www.perseus.gr/Astro-Greek-Archae-Astr-Antikythera.htm ... enjoy.

great shots anthony. but that cannot be a computer there is no microsoft logo on it . it just goes to show how silly humans are as a species. each generation thinks they are the cleverest and the most modern but someone has probably come up with the idea before. it just goes to show you what could be lying at the bottom of the med awaiting to be discovered. if there was one of these devices maybe there are more of them.

An amazing piece of engineering, how could something like it have been made and lost, there must have been more the one of them !

An amazing piece of engineering, how could something like it have been made and lost, there must have been more the one of them !

It was lost because it was on a ship that sunk!

The tech was lost pobably because the Romans then became the dominant power. A group much less scientifically progressive than the Greeks. They may have used these objects but never saw a reason to develop more small cog toys.

Another item that is much simpler but may have similarly profound implications for the evolution of technology is the Baghdad Battery. The object is basically a jar with a copper tube and an iron rod (ot the other way around, can't remember...). If you fill this up with vinegar, you get a battery that produces about 1V. One possible use is electroplating. Whether thats what the object actually is or not we cant say, but its just possible that it was a battery.

Make you wonder what other technology we've had to re-invent.

They may have used these objects but never saw a reason to develop more small cog toys.

Being made of bronze, it was prime for recycling since bronze was in high demand for weapons etc (as far as the Romans are concerned).

Make you wonder what other technology we've had to re-invent.

I agree totally. It scares me what IS sitting right now at the bottom of the Meditterranean waiting to be discovered ... and how different the world today would have been if the great fire at the Library of Alexandria had not occurred. :oops:

Reminds me of the map showing the land mass of Antartica, hundreds of years before it was remapped in modern times.

great shots anthony.

Glad you like 'em ... and thanks!

but that cannot be a computer there is no microsoft logo on it .

A small clarification ... it cannot be a FUNCTIONAL computer there is no microsoft logo on it ....

it just goes to show how silly humans are as a species. each generation thinks they are the cleverest and the most modern but someone has probably come up with the idea before. it just goes to show you what could be lying at the bottom of the med awaiting to be discovered. if there was one of these devices maybe there are more of them.

I agree totally 100% on all points!

During the Christianization of Europe there was a period during which devout clerics, intent on preserving the Word, raided the libraries of Europe for good parchment vellum (often in the form of a bound book) that they then recycled. They did it by scrubbing the surface if the vellum with sand to remove the writing and then using it to record a Gospel or some of what we now know as the Acts of the Apostles. These reused volumes are known as palimpsests.

Unfortunately it now appears that some, lacking an appreciation of the arts and sciences, recycled copies of important scientific, literary and historical works. A team from the Rochester Institute of Technology and Johns Hopkins University in Baltimore is currently conserving the only known copy of an important codex known as the "Archimedes Palimpsest" .

From a historical perspective it is interesting that much of this vandalism seems to have been carried out by clerics during the middle part of what we call the Dark Ages. It seems to have been a period of particular religious zeal during which the secular arts and sciences were less appreciated.

What else was lost one wonders when the illiterate Germanic Goths, Vandals and the Huns overran the Graeco-Roman Empire?

Surely 410 AD (the year Aleric the Hun and his Germanic hordes sacked Rome) must rank as one of the darkest days in the history of Human civilisation.

Aleric, and Attilla the Hun, left only smoking ruins in their wake.

Continental Europe was plunged into hundreds of years of "The Dark Ages" .

Where would we be now if the Romans had managed to keep the Barbarians in their place north of the alps ?

Peter.

What else was lost one wonders when the illiterate Germanic Goths, Vandals and the Huns overran the Graeco-Roman Empire?

Surely 410 AD (the year Aleric the Hun and his Germanic hordes sacked Rome) must rank as one of the darkest days in the history of Human civilisation.

Aleric, and Attilla the Hun, left only smoking ruins in their wake.

Continental Europe was plunged into hundreds of years of "The Dark Ages" .

Where would we be now if the Romans had managed to keep the Barbarians in their place north of the alps ?

Peter.

in chains, in rome for sale probably.

Aleriv was a Visigoth,not a Hun.

My apologies.

Nice poem about him here:

www.john351.supanet.com/index14.html

Peter.

The so called barbarians have had a very bad press from various sources, most of them being counted amongst those who highlight only the glories of Rome and gloss over its brutal history of murder, slavery and conquest. Most of us ooh and aah when we see monuments like the Colloseum, never really thinking about the people who died or were enslaved to fund and build it or the thousands who unwillingly met their death in it. In my opinion the Roman civilization as a society or culture is to be denigrated and reviled, not admired.

Sing no songs of praise when beauty is produced by evil, rather hang your head in shame for all mankind that our fellows could not achieve the one without indulging in the other. Many of the so-called barbarian societies that took over as Rome crumbled were much closer to what we would regard as just and civilised than classical Rome ever was or appears to have wanted to be.

Where would we be now if the Romans had managed to keep the Barbarians in their place north of the alps ?

At the risk of deteriorating this into a monty python thread, what did the Romans ever do for us?

They were good engineers and came up with some interesting social and political structures, but I'm having trouble thinking of any new scientific contibutions they made. Other civilisations seem to have had more of a focus on science and invention.

The nature of empire is rape, pillage, treasure; the first two leading to the last. Pick your empire Persian, Roman, Ottoman, British; all sorts of noble talk of bringing the benefits of universal order and civilisation to the ignorant savages, but really at the end of the day, it's about bringing the loot home. The denigration of the conquered, allows the victor to believe the butchery was in a noble cause rather than the grubby pursuit of treasure.

The Romans weren't just good engineers, they were master engineers. They seemed to lack the creative flair of the ancient Greeks in the natural sciences and the arts; their energy more directed to practical pursuits required by empire, such as public administration, the Law, civil engineering and military technology.

Just finished two books by Tom Holland; Rubicon and Persian Fire. The early struggles of Democracy versus Tyranny/Monarchy in Rome and Athens is fascinating. I love reading about the flowering of philosopy, astronomy/cosmology and mathematics in ancient Greece. The greatest cultural tragedy ever was probably the burning of the great library in Alexandria, during Caesar's pursuit of Pompey in the civil war.

James

Almost every single LEARNED word in the English language is of Greek or Roman origin.

The very alphabet you write in is Roman !

There are no Irish, English, French or German alphabets around.(Ogham and Runic were based on the Roman alphabet.)

The list of what we owe to the Romans and especially to the Greeks is so endless that I suggest you buy a few history books and start reading them.

P.S. This is December. Latin for ten is "Decem". (10th Roman month)
You speak Latin and Greek all the time and probably don't realise it !

The greatest cultural tragedy ever was probably the burning of the great library in Alexandria, during Caesar's pursuit of Pompey in the civil war.

Makes one wonder how much humanity was set back!

The nature of empire is rape, pillage, treasure; the first two leading to the last. Pick your empire Persian, Roman, Ottoman, British; all sorts of noble talk of bringing the benefits of universal order and civilisation to the ignorant savages, but really at the end of the day, it's about bringing the loot home. The denigration of the conquered, allows the victor to believe the butchery was in a noble cause rather than the grubby pursuit of treasure.

Let's take Iraq at this moment ... what has the average Iraqi gained now that Saddam is no longer in power? I suspect things are worse right now for the average Iraqi than they were prior to the American desire to fight terrorism ... which was later modified to "weapons of mass destruction" ... which was later modified to "removing a tyrrant, war-criminal, ruthless dictator" ... which was later modified to "bring democracy to Iraq" ...

No matter how much oil and potential $$$$ Iraq may have, the country has been set back many many many years and, to add insult to injury, it was not done by the Iraqis themselves but by some idiot in Washington who thought he had a "vision" for the Middle-east.

Aside from Iraq, I suspect history will have a VERY negative view of the US and aside from its many accomplishments.

Many times I laugh at the term homo sapiens ... and especially sapiens which is supposedly related to "wise".

Almost every single LEARNED word in the English language is of Greek or Roman origin.

The very alphabet you write in is Roman !

Grand so the Roman's didnt come up with a new idea called the alphabet they came up with a version of something that was already in use by others.

It was ultimately the Romans who taught the Dalkey people how to read and write Albert. In the person of St. Patrick !

Peter.

It was ultimately the Romans who taught the Dalkey people how to read and write Albert. In the person of St. Patrick !

eh ok...

The Romans learned most of what they knew from the Etruscans, the Carthaginians and the peoples of Spain and Greece (the gladius was of Spanish design). Yes, they did have their share of original thinkers but much of their engineering, artistic and agricultural knowledge was gleaned from those they conquered, not invented.

What did they learn from the Barbarians north of the Alps ?

Aha! You've fallen into the trap. The barbarians weren't always north of the Alps. Northern Italy, for instance, was populated by Gauls until the Romans conquered it. That's where they perfected the legions' pre-Marian tactics.