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Unusual Sardinian sunset

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Unusual Sardinian sunset was created by Conn Buckley

I was on holiday in Sardinia in September 2008 and noticed this unusual sunset. I wondered if anybody on these boards has ever seen one anywhere. The house is on the North West coast (Lat. 41.055 and Long. 8.953) and the image was taken with a Canon 400D on 3rd Sept 2008 at 19:18:22 local time. I used these co-ordinates/time with Starry Night Pro and it suggested that the Sun’s setting position was directly behind the Pyrenees. I guessed that the conical beam of blue light, in the almost vertical, 12 o’clock position was caused by a very high peak in the Pyrenees. However, there is another beam in about the 2o’clock direction and I cannot quite figure out how a similar beam could be generated in a very different direction at the same time.
I have stayed at this house several times in the last few years, but never as late as early Sept., and have never witnessed these phenomena before. When I spotted it I was too busy thinking ‘that’s odd’ and ’looking for the camera’ that I did not think to record how long it lasted. Any ideas?
farm4.static.flickr.com/3451/3196709595_15255198ef_b.jpg
Conn Buckley.
13 years 3 months ago #76345

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Replied by michaeloconnell on topic Re:Unusual Sardinian sunset

Hi Conn,

Interesting image!

The beams appear to radiate from one point - the Sun. My guess is that the mountains, or low lying clouds, are blocking the rays of the Sun and forming crepuscular rays. In this case, rather than the rays appearing to radiate from a point high in the sky, the are radiating from a point/location below the horizon.

I ran the location, date and time into Google Earth and it indicates that the Sun was setting behind the tip of Sardinia at Isola Asinara. This is approx 33 miles from your location.

Michael.
Last edit: 13 years 3 months ago by michaeloconnell.
13 years 3 months ago #76346

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Replied by michaeloconnell on topic Re:Unusual Sardinian sunset

Below is an image from Google Earth showing the setting Sun.
In the distance, you can see the outline of the peninsula.

www.astroshot.com/Solar/Conn-Sunset.jpg

Michael.
13 years 3 months ago #76349

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Replied by dave_lillis on topic Re:Unusual Sardinian sunset

Hi Conn,
The dark beams do indeed look like something is casting a shadow, maybe a ship or an island ?
Nice image.
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13 years 3 months ago #76350

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Replied by Frank Ryan on topic Re:Unusual Sardinian sunset

Hi Conn.

Putting all the info into Google Earth & Starry Night
my best guess is that the two distinct shadows are being cast from the
two high ranges on the Pyrnees.

www.frankryanjr.com/pyrenees.jpg

Although the peaks are relevantly close the fact that the
light source (the sun) is so far away (and your perspective is
adding to this) makes them angle out so greatly.

This can be explained in art as the shadow vanishing point
(if you imagine the first 3 lines this girl draws in this
video as the lines of shadow cast by the tip of the mountain range,
obviously it's in reverse but the principle is the same.
Your light source is also behind (the object) but from below
and your vanishing point is directly behind you.)
video.google.com/videosearch?hl=en&q=sha...p&resnum=4&ct=title#

www.frankryanjr.com/pyrenees2.jpg

Also, shadow vanishing points and perspective are
some of the fundamental ways to disprove the conspiracy theorists
when they sight the fact that in the Apollo landing photos,
different objects cast shadows in different directions and that this could not
be possible with one light source.
Not so,
this short clip explains that and
also shows that two objects near each other can
cast shadows in totally different directions.
video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1998149...ws+perspective&hl=en

Hope this helps!
My Astrophotography
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Last edit: 13 years 3 months ago by Frank Ryan.
13 years 3 months ago #76360

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Replied by michaeloconnell on topic Re:Unusual Sardinian sunset

Do you realise how far away they are from that location? They are approx 350 miles away! That's a staggering distance!

Michael.
Last edit: 13 years 3 months ago by michaeloconnell.
13 years 3 months ago #76363

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Replied by Frank Ryan on topic Re:Unusual Sardinian sunset

Whats your point?
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13 years 3 months ago #76364

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Replied by Seanie_Morris on topic Re:Unusual Sardinian sunset

Aren't these ray phenomenae called Crepescular Rays?

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13 years 3 months ago #76366

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Replied by Frank Ryan on topic Re:Unusual Sardinian sunset

They sure are;

www.atoptics.co.uk/rayshad.htm

They are usually formed by clouds on or behind the horizon.
I ment to say by best guess is aside from clouds that the only
other thing would be the Pyernees that would be big enough to
cast a shadow that size.
I'm taking Mikes question refering to the distance they are
to the observer (in sardinia)is that they would be too far
away to cast the shadows?
I'm not so sure,
Earth bieng round and all and the suns light source bieng
so broad.
The shadow of the Earth can be seen sometimes cast when the conditions are right.
Taking the steep angle of both rays it may well could be the
tips of the ranges.

OR
big clouds.
Whos to say really?
You could send the picture into spaceweather.com
and get them to ask the experts to take a look at it.
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13 years 3 months ago #76369

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Replied by JohnMurphy on topic Re:Unusual Sardinian sunset

Crepuscular rays are fairly common, most often seen at sunrise and sunset, hence the name crepuscular (around dawn or dusk). Usually caused by cloud; in this case it seems the cloud is below the horizon leading to a spectacular image. Well done, nice catch.

Here is a shot I took a couple of years back.
File Attachment:


Clear Skies,
John Murphy
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Clear Skies,
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Check out My Photos
Last edit: 13 years 3 months ago by JohnMurphy.
13 years 3 months ago #76371

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Replied by Frank Ryan on topic Re:Unusual Sardinian sunset

This shot is quite similar to Conns
www.atoptics.co.uk/atoptics/rayim2.htm

from this page
www.atoptics.co.uk/atoptics/rayim1.htm
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13 years 3 months ago #76372

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Replied by michaeloconnell on topic Re:Unusual Sardinian sunset

Barberskum wrote:

Whats your point?


It just seems an incredible dstance, allowing for the curvature of the earth, lack of cloud etc.

At the altitude of his site, one can only see as far as 22 miles out to sea. The nearest mountains are approx 35 miles away and are in the path of the setting sun. Therefore, I would think it plausible that these mountains are more likely to be the cause of the rays than some mountains which are 350 miles away.

However, I am open to correction.

Michael.
13 years 3 months ago #76375

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Replied by michaeloconnell on topic Re:Unusual Sardinian sunset

Barberskum wrote:

This shot is quite similar to Conns
www.atoptics.co.uk/atoptics/rayim2.htm

from this page
www.atoptics.co.uk/atoptics/rayim1.htm


Les Cowley, the author of that website, will be over here to give a talk at Solarfest (solar astronomy star party in Dunsink) in June. Would be interesting to hear his views as he is quite knowledgeable on the subject.

Michael.
13 years 3 months ago #76376

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Replied by Conn Buckley on topic Re:Unusual Sardinian sunset

Michael, I rechecked the data I gave and need to correct/modify a few things. The time I quoted of 19:18:22 was from my camera which of course was on Irish time – should be 18:18:22. The house location is in Costa Paradiso (as shown in your Isola Asinara image) – precise location is Lat 41.05521 and Long. 8.95298. Isola Asinara has 3 peaks of 318, 391 and 408 metres clustered within 5 miles of each other at its most northerly point which I also calculate to be 35 miles from my observing point.

From Starry Night Pro and using the camera time I have calculated that the Sun’s position (just below my horizon) was 11.25º north of West. I have a detailed map of Sardinia and a line from my observing point 11.25º north of West would not pass through Isola Asinara , but a little north of it and an extension of this line across the western Med. eventually arrives in Andorra. I had another look at the image and by brightening it you can see the tip of the island but the ‘vertical ray’ is further right of it (more northerly). A lot depends on the accuracy of all these measurements.
farm2.static.flickr.com/1053/3270467532_5fd10114da_b.jpg

Dave, you made a suggestion of a ship just over the horizon being the cause and I wondered if 2 passing car ferries could produce this result? I took all my shots between 18:18:07 and 18:20:03 and from a close examination of these images I cannot detect any expected angle change in the ‘rays’.

Frank, thanks for the video lead into shadows, vanishing points and perspective. The connection with the Apollo landings is fascinating. This is educational to me and I need to study and try and absorb it. The links to similar images is helpful. Your suggestion to send it to spaceweather is a good idea – I will try that and let you know.
Thanks to all for your opinions.
Conn Buckley.
13 years 3 months ago #76384

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Replied by Frank Ryan on topic Re:Unusual Sardinian sunset

Your welcome Conn.
This kind of dectective stuff is fun.

Mike.
I made the same conclusion to Conn when I looked at the photo & then overlayed it into Google Earth so my guess that if it were not clouds then if you follow in
a line out to sea the next tallest things you hit are the Pyrenees.

In Conns pics if you connect the diagonals of the shadow lines
(I can see a fainter third one also to the far right)
They intersect about half way out in the bay - this intersection point is where the light
source (The Sun)was and so this is how far below the horizon it was
at the time of the shot.
If you visualize the immense curvature of the planet you can maybe
get a sense that the suns light may be casting shadows by objects
much much further away than the horizon.

Did anyone run Google Earth from the base of the Pyrneess
at the time of Conns pic to see where the sun was?
That might suggest something.

As for boats making the shadows.
My own personal opinion is that a tanker size ship would not be
big enough. I'm also open to correction there.
My Astrophotography
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Last edit: 13 years 3 months ago by Frank Ryan.
13 years 3 months ago #76385

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Replied by michaeloconnell on topic Re:Unusual Sardinian sunset

Barberskum wrote:

Your welcome Conn.
This kind of dectective stuff is fun.

Yes, this is quite good fun actually! :-)

And yes, I think you may both be correct in saying it is the Pyrenees. The peninsula is actually visible in the photo to the left of the setting Sun. The time Conn places on the photo would indeed position the Sun too far north of this peninsula and is actually below the sea horizon according to Google Earth. Therefoe, the next piece of land is indeed the Pyrenees. Amazing! I would never have it thought it possible that this phenomena could be visible across such a distance!

When I re-checked the line in Google Earth, I get a bearing of approx 282degrees. This is very close to what you got as well Conn. This places the line of the setting Sun passing roughly midway between Barcelona and Andorra.

Overall though, a very interesting picture!

Michael.
Last edit: 13 years 3 months ago by michaeloconnell.
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