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3 years 7 months ago - 3 years 7 months ago #109414 by Until_then-Goodnight!
Replied by Until_then-Goodnight! on topic LED Lights
Hi All, 

I've been following this thread with great interest. At the moment there are no LED lights in our estate, but there are some of these lights close by. Considering the issues each of you have highlighted I decided to have a quick scan through the PDF that Richard kindly shared. Several things stood out (see below), and I believe the document has left several unanswered questions:

1) It appears that there is very little public consultation involved when installing LEDs. It would seem that a wider form of stakeholder engagement, which would include some form of an EPA strand to it, would be of crucial importance before installing these LEDs - no?

2) Out of interest, are astronomical  bodies (in Ireland or abroad) considered a key stakeholder in such debates? What about nature conversationist organisations? How have other countries managed to reduce light pollution through the processes that are outlined in the ILP1 document? 

3) You'll see from some of the information contained in the PDF that the effect on bat populations need to be taken into account during the design and planning process of installing LEDs. To what extent does this happen in practice, and who signs-off that such an activity has taken place? 

These are just some of the questions that I feel have been left unanswered by the PDF. I'm sure someone with a good eye for this type of thing could raise better questions, and I'd love to know what others think about the process of installing LEDs in Ireland. 

One thing is sure though, I'm certainly looking forward to reading through the ILP1 document greater detail. 

Clear skies to all, and I'm interested to see where this thread goes. 

Darren. 

Points Extracted from the PDF 


3.0 Objectives of Public Lighting 
3.6 Avoidance of obtrusive Lighting – Extracted from Guidance Notes for the Reduction of Obtrusive Light GN01:2011If possible, light should not enter the bedrooms of residents and the fitting of cowls or some other measure may be required where a resident complains of light pollution.The ILP1 have also brought out a useful guidance document in 2020 on measures to be taken to mitigate light spill.
Obtrusive Light, whether it keeps you awake through a bedroom window or impedes your view of the night sky, is a form of pollution, which may also be a nuisance in law and which can be substantially reduced without detriment to the lighting task.Figure 1 – Types of obtrusive lightDo not "over" light. This is a major cause of obtrusive light and is a waste of energy. There are published standards for most lighting tasks, adherence to which will help minimise upward reflected light.The spill of light onto buildings opposite can be controlled by lessening the tilt angle or by using a narrow optic which limits the lateral spread. Manufacturers generally have a narrow, medium wide optic options and also have optics which extend the light beam further or lesser in the longitudinal plane. 
Generally, LED lanterns should be set in the range 0-5 degrees and the optic type should determines the lateral spread thereafter. (pg. 13-14)

13. Lighting Engineering Consultants

Public Lighting Designers need to liaise with the development’s Architects, Landscape designers and the proposed Public Lighting installation contractor to ensure that conflict between elements is avoided so that each component can operate effectively, to its design standard. Lighting designs can be assessed against environmental impact by following the process outlined in the ILP1
Guidance document illustrated here. (pg. 68)
Figure 4 Menu of Standard planning conditions relating to public lighting

M1 All lighting within the site shall be directed and cowled if necessary so as not to interfere with passing traffic or cause any glare or additional light spill to adjoining residential property. The lighting must comply with requirements of the ILP Guidance Document for Spill Light being achieved in the development and that proof of same must be agreed with the public lighting engineer.In the interests of residential amenity. (pg 134)


19 The applicant must demonstrate and ensure that there is no light pollution (obtrusive light – as per ILP guidance Note GN10:2011) outside their property that would affect third party properties and members of the public, including drivers travelling on the public road. This is an H&S IssueEnvironment and H&SM20 The information submitted on the lighting shows obtrusive light levels (lux) on Third Party Properties and Public Roads which is not acceptable. The Applicant needs to re-submit a revised design and drawing. Environment and H&S (pg 136)
Last edit: 3 years 7 months ago by Until_then-Goodnight!.
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3 years 7 months ago #109416 by lunartic_old
Replied by lunartic_old on topic LED Lights
Some councils in the UK turn their lights off between 1am and 4am.  Locals are not happy, saying it leads to crime.  Reports have shown this is not the case, most homes are broken into during the day.  If a burglar attempts to break into a property in the dark, they will need a torch and that makes them more obvious and suspicious.
Bright lights also affect how we see, our pupils contract and our ability to see in the dark is greatly decreased, increasing the likelihood of accidents.
If councils do not turn off lights, then perhaps then can leave every third light burning, or reduce the output.  Councils are always complaining about lack of money, and yet, they spend millions on wasted lighting.
Paul

Programming today is a race between software engineers striving to build bigger and better programs, and the universe trying to produce bigger and better idiots. So far, the universe is winning.

Rich Cook
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3 years 6 months ago #109417 by Until_then-Goodnight!
Replied by Until_then-Goodnight! on topic LED Lights
Hi Paul, 

I never realised that about the UK and 'lights out' between  in some parts between 1am and 4am. What a boon for stargazers and wildlife.

Now, if only we could make that happen here we'd be out all night :) 

On that, the sky looks the best it has been for quite a while, so I'm going to make the most of it. 

All the best, 

Darren. 
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2 years 9 months ago - 2 years 9 months ago #110354 by Until_then-Goodnight!
Replied by Until_then-Goodnight! on topic LED Lights
I am utterly disgusted. The street lights in my estate are now all bright LEDs. I cannot believe how harsh they are. They are like the flood lights you'd see on an astro turf pitch. What's more, they create a most unusual atmosphere on the road... It's horrible.

I mentioned earlier in this thread that it seemed that those responsible for installing these lights do not engage in public consultation. Well, from my experience they don't! I never received any form of correspondence about the changes in street light. 

There is no doubt that these lights are a nuisance as defined by content found in the document that Richard so kindly shared on this thread. And it's for this reason I am going raise the issue of 'Obtrusive Light' with several people. 

I'm a man on mission, so any advice from those who have spoken to the authorities is welcomed. 

In the meantime, I'll keep you posted on how things go. 

Darren. 

​​​​​​
Last edit: 2 years 9 months ago by Until_then-Goodnight!.
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2 years 9 months ago #110356 by lunartic_old
Replied by lunartic_old on topic LED Lights
Welcome to the dark side, well, the light side, actually.
The IDA suggest the lights should be 3000k or less, that is best for people and wildlife. Chances are the LED lights installed by the councils are nowhere near this, perhaps twice as high. I wonder if the councils have the exact figure they are set at.
The excuse is always going to be "security" and it will be difficult to convince people otherwise.

Paul

Programming today is a race between software engineers striving to build bigger and better programs, and the universe trying to produce bigger and better idiots. So far, the universe is winning.

Rich Cook
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2 years 9 months ago #110358 by Until_then-Goodnight!
Replied by Until_then-Goodnight! on topic LED Lights
Many thanks for this Paul, and will keep these points in mind when I am raising the issue.

All the best,

Darren.
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