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DOOOOOOM for physics..are we ?.

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12 years 8 months ago #90646 by Nerro
Replied by Nerro on topic Re: DOOOOOOM for physics..are we ?.
Well given some thought maybe that experiment doesn't brake any rules after all.given the distance of 700km or so surely there should be some curve from earth?as we know mass bends the light as it was proven on solar eclipses then maybe neutrinos just doesn't interact with mass as photons?they just go straight?maybe that's what they are seeing?

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12 years 8 months ago - 12 years 8 months ago #90648 by dave_lillis
Replied by dave_lillis on topic Re: DOOOOOOM for physics..are we ?.
haha, wouldnt it be gas if that was it, but I'd imagine they must have thought of that one.

As for 1987a, its an interesting point you raise there Al, here are some details of the neutrinos from 1987a, note the abruptness of the neutrino graph,
ircamera.as.arizona.edu/NatSci102/NatSci...upernovaremnants.htm

Do we know for sure that the visible light and neutrinos arrived at Earth at exactly the same time, if the neutrinos are moving at C+x, then maybe x is soo tiny that they were here a few seconds or a minute or so before the visible light got here?? dunno, just thinking out loud, too many unknown variables here for me, I'm an observer not a nuclear physicist. :angry:

Dave L. on facebook , See my images in flickr
Chairman. Shannonside Astronomy Club (Limerick)

Carrying around my 20" obsession is going to kill me,
but what a way to go. :)
+ 12"LX200, MK67, Meade2045, 4"refractor
Last edit: 12 years 8 months ago by dave_lillis.

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12 years 8 months ago #90651 by albertw
Replied by albertw on topic Re: DOOOOOOM for physics..are we ?.

Dave_Lillis wrote: haha, wouldnt it be gas if that was it, but I'd imagine they must have thought of that one.

As for 1987a, its an interesting point you raise there Al, here are some details of the neutrinos from 1987a, note the abruptness of the neutrino graph,
ircamera.as.arizona.edu/NatSci102/NatSci...upernovaremnants.htm

Do we know for sure that the visible light and neutrinos arrived at Earth at exactly the same time, if the neutrinos are moving at C+x, then maybe x is soo tiny that they were here a few seconds or a minute or so before the visible light got here?? dunno, just thinking out loud, too many unknown variables here for me, I'm an observer not a nuclear physicist. :angry:


Supernovas happen very quickly. Which is part of the reason for the abruptness in the graph you mention, and that abruptness also gives physicists confidence that the neutrinos were coming from the superonva and not somewhere else. They did arrive about 3 hours before the visible light. This is explained by the neutrinos being able to escape from the core of a star immediately at the time of core collapse (almost massless, non interacting) whereas the visible light was only emitted when the shockwave from the collapse reached the surface.

1987a is what, 50kpc or so away? If we take the 60ns quicker over 700km (ish) that the paper mentions, then a quick 'back of the envelope' calculation says that the neutrinos should have arrived 4.3 years before the visible light. Unfortunately there were no reliable neutrino detectors around in 1983 :) (unless the ruskies have some data from Baksan that they never told anyone about). So if there were some special super-luminous neutrinos emitted from 1987a - we missed them :)

Albert White MSc FRAS
Chairperson, International Dark Sky Association - Irish Section
www.darksky.ie/

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12 years 8 months ago #90653 by johnomahony
Replied by johnomahony on topic Re: DOOOOOOM for physics..are we ?.
Interesting. I wonder if information can be sent faster than light though? Given how little neutrinos interact with matter, perhaps they are travelling in a slightly higher dimension or have extra dimensionality :silly: . It may not be a violation of Einsteins laws. I'm on antibiotics at the moment...must be affecting my brain :D

The Lord giveth, the Revenue taketh away. (John 1:16)

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12 years 8 months ago - 12 years 8 months ago #90656 by dave_lillis
Replied by dave_lillis on topic Re: DOOOOOOM for physics..are we ?.
well, thats that so, looks like they definitely missed something or something completely new is going on, so much for the neutrino drive/wormhole. :stooges:

Dave L. on facebook , See my images in flickr
Chairman. Shannonside Astronomy Club (Limerick)

Carrying around my 20" obsession is going to kill me,
but what a way to go. :)
+ 12"LX200, MK67, Meade2045, 4"refractor
Last edit: 12 years 8 months ago by dave_lillis.

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12 years 8 months ago #90669 by johnomahony
Replied by johnomahony on topic Re: DOOOOOOM for physics..are we ?.
If this turns out to be true , then perhaps mass and energy can escape from a black hole. Should we see lots of them from black hole sources?

The Lord giveth, the Revenue taketh away. (John 1:16)

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