Seeing celestial objects in white

I'm seeing Mars and Saturn as almost pure white too and I'm using a 12 inch reflector.

That could just be coincidence of something else, but seeing I also have a 12" Dob, I can tell you, on a clear night, Saturn has colour, and cloud bands. Factors to think about are collimation and seeing conditions. If you're viewing with both of these factors unfavourable, then you're going to miss out.

Seanie.

Well hopefully I can rule out collimation shortly. I've been collimating mainly using a collimated laser. Tape around the collimator 1.25" barrel to eliminate focusser slop for the secondary. Then using the barlowed laser method for the primary. Crosschecked with the supplied Orion collimation cap and a cheshire eyepiece/sight-tube combo.

Course that is all for nought if the primary centre marker is off and that is what I will be checking shortly. I will be taking the mirror out anyway to clean it (I know its only a few weeks old but unfortunately for the first few weeks until I got the shed the scope was inside the house and the mirror got a lot of dust, dog hair and doggie dander on it already!!) and after I clean it I will check the centering of the donut.

Thats all I can think of re-collimation as I am sure my methodology is correct. The only other thing is that at the very beginning when I hadn't a clue I messed with the focusser collimation hex nuts. I don't think I actually managed to even adjust it but I am not sure. Could a maladjusted focusser account for washed out colour despite sharpness not being affected??

See thats also why I ruled out seeing as my problem. On a few good nights I could focus a very sharp Saturnian disc and rings and shadow of rings and Martian disc and I was even seeing the barest hint of a darker cloud band on Saturn and syrtis major on Mars. So I assumed the seeing was good in Bray those nights yet I still saw no colour. On the other hand I checked these forums and everyone was saying how bad the seeing was those nights?

Anyway, another mod I have in the planning stages is to attach a fan, rear shroud and a ring baffle just above the mirror. The fan will be doing double duty. Even though the scope is stored outside in a shed, I have been told that while its closer to ambient than if it was inside it, that I still need a fan to quickly equalise it the last little bit to eliminate tube currents. The ring baffle will make use of that fan air and direct it across the primary to disrupt the boundary layer of air.

After all that then the only culprits left are seeing and psychological interpretation of colour (my actual colour vision is perfect) Those two will have to wait for an observing meet where the experts can teach me how to interpret seeing conditions and by looking in their scopes I can see whether their scopes do indeed show more detail and colour or that I am just expecting to much colour, contrast and it turns out my scope is showing exactly the same as theirs and the difference is in expectation and interpretation

Hi Keith,
If you're using a 12" Dob and are seeing Syrtis major on Mars and still see the planet as white, then you have a colour problem with your eye.
might be worth getting it tested for colour blindness (there are many types of this).

Have you tried both eyes, sometimes they have differing colour strengths.

Hi Dave,

Well when I say I am seeing Syrtis major, at its best it is the barest slightly darker shading on an white disc. Just enough contrast to check against Mars previewer for that night and confirm. I've done colour eye tests in print and I recently did a few online ones recommended by posters on CloudyNights and I passed with 100%.

I haven't checked my left eye actually because my eyesight isn't as good in that eye. Must give it a try the next night.

On your 20in Obsession Dave and on your 12in LB Seanie, how do you dim Mars. Filters, Apeture Mask?? Are you guys seeing the colour no matter what the seeing conditions and its just detail that you lose with bad seeing or in your scope does the colour also depend on the seeing. I know we have the jetstream almost permanently over us here in Ireland but maybe the Sea Breezes/air over Bray makes for premanently bad seeing here. Has Philip Lardner ever mentioned uniformly bad seeing from Bray??

but maybe the Sea Breezes/air over Bray makes for premanently bad seeing here. Has Philip Lardner ever mentioned uniformly bad seeing from Bray??

Keith,

I can make out colour and some detail of Mars on my 6" reflector and I live in Bray. I have experience some real crystal clear nights in Bray, so I don't think I would classify it has uniform bad seeing but then I am no expert.
Darragh

On your 20in Obsession Dave and on your 12in LB Seanie, how do you dim Mars. Filters, Apeture Mask?? Are you guys seeing the colour no matter what the seeing conditions and its just detail that you lose with bad seeing or in your scope does the colour also depend on the seeing. I know we have the jetstream almost permanently over us here in Ireland but maybe the Sea Breezes/air over Bray makes for premanently bad seeing here. Has Philip Lardner ever mentioned uniformly bad seeing from Bray??

Neutral density filter is one option. Cutting the aperture cuts the resolution.

Mind you you might be better going for colored filters to increase the contrast of the features.

edit:

Using an orange filter will bring out more surface detail, blue will bring out the polar regions more.

Hi Keith,
Aperture masks are an interesting beast, they can actually improve the image sharpness during times of bad seeing.
It might be worth experimenting with this just for that alone, but it wont help on colour.
My reading of it is that bad seeing will result in a more blurry image, sharp red or blurry red is still red.
I play around with orange and yellow filters (meade series) to reduce the glare, to be honest you get used to the glare fairly quickly so I don't always use a filter.
If you're eyes pass the colour tests, then it must be a case of differing expectations, how do you see betelgeaux through the scope, focused and unfocused ??