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Cosmic Rays & Global Warming

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Cosmic Rays & Global Warming was created by jmcc5

I'm not sure if this is the right forum or not. Anyway....


I was reading somewhere recently that the activity of the sun could have an impact on global warming in that during a period of high activity the energy from the sun protects the earth from cosmic rays thus reducing the amount of cloud (I think that's what it said).

So surely with the new solar cycle beginning scientists should be hoping for a more active cycle than the last one to see if the amount of global warming is reduced as well as reducing the man made carbon emmissions.

I'm open to correction on any of the above as I had to read it several times just to understand that bit
Joanna
Cork Astronomy Club
15 years 10 months ago #42480

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Replied by Seanie_Morris on topic Re: Cosmic Rays & Global Warming

I've never heard this theory before, but it sounds interesting. Have you got any online links Joanna?
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15 years 10 months ago #42487

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Replied by dmcdona on topic Re: Cosmic Rays & Global Warming

There was a environmental disussion on The Late Late last week I think.

There was an egghead who constantly interrupted everone else and kept on mentioning cosmic ray. TBH I found him irritating. He didn't elaborate on the 'cosmic ray' stuff.

FWIW

Dave
15 years 10 months ago #42489

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Replied by Matthew C on topic Re: Cosmic Rays & Global Warming

Did anyone see the documentary on global warming last night? It was a group of scientists who were adamant that co2 emissions from cars and the likes have no effect(or affect!i never know!) on global warming! they say that its the sun rays thats doing it! They say this happened tens of thousands of years ago naturally so thats their theory! didnt actually see it but me mum was telling me! Its recorded. actually im going watch it now! Bye!
Matthew :D
We shall not cease from exploration
And the end of all our exploring
Will be to arrive where we started
And know the place for the first time. . . .
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15 years 10 months ago #42495

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Replied by jmcc5 on topic Re: Cosmic Rays & Global Warming

Hi Seanie,


Have a look at these links:

www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn6270
www.scienceagogo.com/news/20030713212408data_trunc_sys.shtml

or just goggle "cosmic rays global warming" to get all 564,000 results
Joanna
Cork Astronomy Club
15 years 10 months ago #42498

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Replied by Seanie_Morris on topic Re: Cosmic Rays & Global Warming

Hi Seanie,


Have a look at these links:

www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn6270
www.scienceagogo.com/news/20030713212408data_trunc_sys.shtml

or just goggle "cosmic rays global warming" to get all 564,000 results


Nah, I'll stick with your two here!
Midlands Astronomy Club.
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Former IFAS Chairperson and Secretary.
15 years 10 months ago #42499

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Replied by dave_lillis on topic Re: Cosmic Rays & Global Warming

Did anyone see the documentary on global warming last night?


DAMN,!, I wanted to see that and I forgot about it !
What did you think of their arguments, is it a convincing argument or more head in the clouds stuff?
Dave L. on facebook , See my images in flickr
Chairman. Shannonside Astronomy Club (Limerick)

Carrying around my 20" obsession is going to kill me,
but what a way to go. :)
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15 years 10 months ago #42504

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Replied by Matthew C on topic Re: Cosmic Rays & Global Warming

I still have to watch it! Il tell ya later! :D
We shall not cease from exploration
And the end of all our exploring
Will be to arrive where we started
And know the place for the first time. . . .
T. S. Eliot
A wise man....
15 years 10 months ago #42509

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Replied by Seanie_Morris on topic Re: Cosmic Rays & Global Warming

Give it a go onto YouTube or something like that for the rest of us!
Midlands Astronomy Club.
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15 years 10 months ago #42523

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Replied by amckinstry on topic Good discussion of it on RealClimate

There is a good discussion of the issue on RealClimate:

www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2...ew-clothes/#more-412

Short Summary: very hard to see any variation in the Global Cosmic
Ray (GCR) flux to explain global warming, which is happening. GCR may
be influencing cloud formation by 'seeding' clouds.

Its a case of be careful, people are actively seeking to
muddy the waters by looking at something else to blame global warming on,
and solar is the prime candidate, saying 'its just a periodic warming'.
The IPCC is fairly hard on this: no.
Anyone who believes exponential growth can go on forever in a finite world is either a madman or an economist - Kenneth Boulding (Economist)
15 years 10 months ago #42603

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Replied by Matthew C on topic Re: Cosmic Rays & Global Warming

There is a book to accompany this documentary:
"The Chilling Stars,A new theory of climate change"
By Henrik Svensmark and Nigel Calder.
My dad bought it after watching the documentary! Well not straight after the documentary! :D
We shall not cease from exploration
And the end of all our exploring
Will be to arrive where we started
And know the place for the first time. . . .
T. S. Eliot
A wise man....
15 years 10 months ago #42605

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Replied by dave_lillis on topic Re: Cosmic Rays & Global Warming

I managed to see a recording of this yesterday and if the program is right, then CO2 has nothing to to do with global warming!

Basically the argument is that the suns activity is affecting the climate in that when the sun is more active, its solar wind is stronger as its magnetic field and this deflects cosmic rays, big deal you say, well, the less comic rays there are, the less clouds will be in our atmosphere (they say the cosmic rays can seed the atmosphere for cloud formation) , when this happens the planet heats up as there is less cloud cover.

They found a direct correlation between the suns activity and global temperatures and a corrolation with CO2, but not the relationship you might think, the CO2 figures FOLLOW the temperature change, not precede it, in other words, the temperature changes before the CO2 levels change. Looking back in the past using ice cores they found a lag of approx 800 years. Al Gores film showed a graph illustrating this relationship also but without the time lag. They say that when the climate heats up, CO2 is released from the oceans, hence the lag as this takes time.

Over the last 100 years, they can plot solar activity and temperature changes very accurately, I don't remember what exactly they meant by solar activity, between 1950 and 1975, the temperatures actually fell and solar activity matched it, CO2 levels didn't.
Before 1975, scientists were worried about an on coming ice age !!
BTW, these guys are not sponsored by the oil/coal/gas industry, they say that the whole environmental thing has been hijacked.

I'm not fully decided but it was definitely an eye opener for me, they put across a very convincing argument.
We could have fixed the CO2 problem, but there is absolutely nothing we can do about the Sun.
The most scary thing about this is that George W might have been right ! :o
Dave L. on facebook , See my images in flickr
Chairman. Shannonside Astronomy Club (Limerick)

Carrying around my 20" obsession is going to kill me,
but what a way to go. :)
+ 12"LX200, MK67, Meade2045, 4"refractor
15 years 10 months ago #42822

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Replied by amckinstry on topic Channel4 Swindle program

Theres a good response to the channel4 global warming swindle
program at:

www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/story/0,,2032575,00.html

Basically the program is far from right: without CO2 warming the
planet, Earth would be 50 degrees colder: global warming is
necessary for life, and well accepted for decades; Anthropogenic Global Warming is what the debate is all about.

Basically their science has been well debunked several times, and
they just keep ignoring it. Carl Wunsch, one of the Oceanographic
experts on the program is furious about having been misrepresented
into sounding like agreeing with them,

On the CO2 front, its worth realizing that if global warming as an issue
were to go away tomorrow (eg. we built a large space-based umbrella
to block off some sunlight, etc). the Increase in CO2 would still be
one of the major threats to the planet, as it is acidifying the Oceans.
This is poorly publicised only because the CO2 increase has to be
solved anyway to solve the Global Warming problem.
Anyone who believes exponential growth can go on forever in a finite world is either a madman or an economist - Kenneth Boulding (Economist)
15 years 10 months ago #42824

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Replied by dave_lillis on topic Re: Cosmic Rays & Global Warming

Thanks for the link, one point I hand't thought of was C4+science=tabloid journalism, as indicated by the lin above.
Looks like we're back to the CO2 problem, which the governments seem inept at fixing. If they did it on BBC2 (horizon), it would have had more balance.
it seemed like a good argument, I guess when you scratch a little deeper, you see all the theories have been disproved.

I'm open minded, but not so open minded that my brain falls out :lol:
Dave L. on facebook , See my images in flickr
Chairman. Shannonside Astronomy Club (Limerick)

Carrying around my 20" obsession is going to kill me,
but what a way to go. :)
+ 12"LX200, MK67, Meade2045, 4"refractor
15 years 10 months ago #42827

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