Me thinking out load on technical issues of new site

I know I've mentioned this before and you might consider it a step backward but have you considered mambo/joomla CMS? I'm such a fan. The template based approach makes skinning the whole thing a piece of cake and theres even a version fully integrated with phpbb. Because its a CMS it could end up taking a lot of the maintenance work off your hands and even put content development into the hands of some selected users.

I just think its an ideal platform for a community based site.

Excellent point. Although I'm not familiar with the tools Dave mentions, some form of CMS and/or wiki type thing is needed to allow the content to grow.

Although I'm not familiar with the tools Dave mentions, some form of CMS and/or wiki type thing is needed to allow the content to grow.

If any of you guys are interested in learning more, i'd be happy to let you guys look in the backend of my website to see how it all works. Just pm me if you wanna peek.

Hi Bart

Great news on the server. Great having the run of the place and being able to install what you like.

Bigtime ... so nice not to have to beg and then be told to get stuffed!

All nice ideas, cant pretend to have much experience with the software you mention. Just been looking at Jforums, looks really great. Much as I love php, I think your probably right about moving towards java. I've read a little about struts, from what I gather its the only way to go for java dev. However I'm always a little nervous about embracing relatively new platforms (struts) until they have been totally proven. Maybe thats a wrong approach but I've been stung too many times with 'the latest thing'.

I have to say I agree with your sentiments, the 'bleeding edge' is a REALLY bad plave to be when developing live services! However, Java in general and Struts in particular are proven technologies at this stage. I've been developing Struts for a good while now and I have to say when you come from the power of struts to have to go back to PHP is PAINFUL!

I know I've mentioned this before and you might consider it a step backward but have you considered mambo/joomla CMS? I'm such a fan. The template based approach makes skinning the whole thing a piece of cake and theres even a version fully integrated with phpbb. Because its a CMS it could end up taking a lot of the maintenance work off your hands and even put content development into the hands of some selected users.

I just think its an ideal platform for a community based site.

Don't worry, the site WILL be built around user contributions and users WILL get a nice easy way to contribute but I want to develop the service to be taylored to us rather than trying to build a choerent site by grabbing loads of separate products and then trying to munge them all together because that is just NASTY! I've become a very big fan of TinyMCE ( tinymce.moxiecode.com/ ) as a mechanism of getting good XHTML off people in an easy way and then using it as part of a custom web app. You get the power of a CMS but you, the developer are in control, not some other guys on the other side of the planet building what THEY think is the best thing since sliced bread!

Main point, rest assured, my driving principle here is to build a community driven site, not your average common or garden one way inforamtion dump site! The users will be the ones providing the content, not me.

anyone found a serious debate java vs php? I cant seem to find any :S

Don't think it would be much of a debate TBH. The only advantage to PHP is that it's simple enough to allow people with very little experience or knowlege to develop web pages ... but when you look at a lot of what is produced you have to wonder whether that really is a good thing!

PHP is stuck in the past, it's driving idea is to allow dynamic code to be inserted into raw HTML. This is an imensly BAD idea as it results in a hodge-podge of presentation and business logic all interwined and horribly nasty to maintain. PHP is trying to get out of that mind-set with things like Smarty tempaltes but at it's core PHP still has the wrong end of the stick and always will when it comes to developing any kind of major web application.

Personly i know php ok, but i know the syntax of java better though i have never tried making webpages in java. But from the language i would think php is faster to develop and java slower but java will be "stronger" because of "stricter" code.

It depends on the size of the project. For large, complex projects, Java will be BOTH faster and stronger, for small projects Java will be stronger but PHP will be faster to develop. For a large, complex site, Apache Struts & Java is an excellent way to go. You get a solid framework based on a sound idea, the total separation of the three key components of a web applicaiton:
1) Presentation (done with a strickt sub-set of JSP in a good Struts app)
2) Buisiness Logic (done with Java Classes and on large systems, EJBs)
3) Control of Flow (done with an XML config file in Struts.)

This design pattern is called MVC (Model, Viewm Controler) and if you're developing enterprise level web stuff you NEED MVC. You have options thought, there is more than just Java out there. You could go for a solution like Ruby on Rails or even Perl + the Template Toolkit but Java is an excellent option and the Struts Framework makes it an even better option.

From experience I can tell you that it is an absulute joy to develop complex web apps with Struts. Yes, there is a learning curve and at first it may seem like there are a lot of hoops to jump through but there will come a moment when your app starts to build up in complexity where your eyes will suddendly open as you realise that those things are not hoops but really really sensible scaffolds and once that moment comes the thought of having to build web apps without some form of MVC architecture to support you becomes a nightmare!

And yes, I am a total nerd and really get into programming and programming languages!

Bart.

Right, well changing from phpBB is a pretty broken idea.

1. phpBB works and seems to work fine for this site, so why "fix" it with some Java Web Framework?

2. Is a Java Web Framework the best or has the Sun marketing blinded you into believing their is nothing else besides Java for web frameworks?

There is Ruby on Rails, Django and Turbogears in Python and there is probably others are there.

Right now Django and Ruby-on-Rails are probably 2 of the most interesting and accessible frameworks.

Other web frameworks beside Java frameworks maybe more accessible to members here who would like to get involved in developing a new solution for the IFAS website

Right, well changing from phpBB is a pretty broken idea.

1. phpBB works and seems to work fine for this site, so why "fix" it with some Java Web Framework?

2. Is a Java Web Framework the best or has the Sun marketing blinded you into believing their is nothing else besides Java for web frameworks?

Not well it doesn't! I'm well pissed off with it at this stage. It's not too bad on these boards because the volume is still low enough for phpBB to cope and it is not too heavily modified so the frequent updates are still managable. However, my experiences on Mikado tell me that phpBB has some reall issues when it starts to get big or when you want to customise it a lot.

There is Ruby on Rails, Django and Turbogears in Python and there is probably others are there.

Right now Django and Ruby-on-Rails are probably 2 of the most interesting and accessible frameworks.

Other web frameworks beside Java frameworks maybe more accessible to members here who would like to get involved in developing a new solution for the IFAS website

Java is a lot more open than Ruby or Dejango! Java is not an obscure language, it is the industry standard at this stage. I read an article a few days ago that put Java at 60% of enterprise sites.